jTjg wrote:
One counter-argument: Chicago was won in 2:13 in 1993 and that did not hurt Chicago's reputation and still attracted the likes of Gebrselassie, Tergat, Khannouchi, and Radcliffe.
When did Geb or Tergat run Chicago?
jTjg wrote:
One counter-argument: Chicago was won in 2:13 in 1993 and that did not hurt Chicago's reputation and still attracted the likes of Gebrselassie, Tergat, Khannouchi, and Radcliffe.
When did Geb or Tergat run Chicago?
jTjg wrote:
One counter-argument: Chicago was won in 2:13 in 1993 and that did not hurt Chicago's reputation and still attracted the likes of Gebrselassie, Tergat, Khannouchi, and Radcliffe.
Geb and Tergat each ran NYC but never Chicago.
Captain obviaas wrote:
Simply put, wasting fast courses with unpaced marathons are an unmitigated disaster.
A disaster for who? The women were moving just fine yesterday.
Of course Tony is critical of Chicago. They didn't hire him this year!
It's really the HALF WORLD Marathon Majors. Only B grade Toyko is on this side of the world.
Australia has Gold Coast, Melbourne and Sydney Marathons. Introduce rabbits and Agrade competition to Gold Coast and very quickly get 2.05 men and 2.20 women.
There are also better quality marathons in India, China and of course Japan.
NobodySclean wrote:
Star :
You're wrong too. NY has no pacers, yet it attracts top marathoners every year. As long as Chicago pays 100k for the winner, the elite will show up.
Nope, you're not thinking big picture. Having a big payout but no pacers ELIMINATES both elites who want to run fast and up and comers who need to build up their resumes with fast times. Bekele, for example, would never have run Chicago no matter how high the payout because he needed to run fast to prove he wasn't washed up. Also, in paced races like Berlin there are big world record bonuses. With no pacers there is virtually no chance of that happening in Chicago.
Les wrote:
Bekele, for example, would never have run Chicago no matter how high the payout
You can't believe this.
Deserve's got nothing to do with it.
Star : I used to like WR attempts, but in most cases, everybody blows out, even pacers, which makes the race really disappointing.
There might be a medium where they pay pacers to run a 1:01:45 to 1:02 half and then let them race.
land downunder wrote:
Australia has Gold Coast, ... Introduce rabbits and Agrade competition to Gold Coast and very quickly get 2.05 men and 2.20 women.
You left out one important thing, need to introduce increased prize money, an earlier start would help too, gets too hot last hour of a 2:05.
simplemind wrote:
NobodySclean wrote:I can't believe you mentioned Eindhoven's marathon.
The only thing that happened was the pace maker ran at 2:06 pace and then he won. Is that what you like to watch ?
I've enjoy Chigago's weird scenario but Festus Talam is 21 years old. What is not great about that performance? He might be the sub 2h messiah.
You even can accuse him of doping (but you need to agree that Kiriu isn't to prove your point).
He led the whole way, then pulled away from the last 3 AFTER he reached the point he was supposed to pace to, then they led him off course, which luckily was corrected.
Interestingly his credentials before yesterdays Eindhoven Marathon Would NOT have got him an invitation to a big Marathon Like New York or Chicago.
Tergat ran Chicago 2 time, 2001 and 2002 I think. First time he was outkicked by one of the pacers.
Talum's best 5000 is 14:22 (at Altitude) 29:19 for 10k (Road) 44:28 for 15k and 60:56 for Marathon.
So I doubt he would get invitations to Marathons like Chicago, New York, Boston, London etc. (Before yesterday) 60:56 for the Half Marathon will get Americans invitations to almost any race they want to run, Kenyans (and Ethiopians) are judged by a higher standard in distance running (In my opinion.)
hyperbolesnotwelcome wrote:
Les wrote:Bekele, for example, would never have run Chicago no matter how high the payout
You can't believe this.
You didn't complete the quote. The complete sentence was: "Bekele, for example, would never have run Chicago no matter how high the payout because he needed to run fast to prove he wasn't washed up."
Bekele desperately wants to prove he's still a COMPETITIVE force and not just another marathoner looking to get paid. Winning Chicago in 2:11 isn't going to convince anyone, particularly the Ethiopian team selectors who tend to select athletes based solely on time, that's he's still relevant.
Pinkowski really needs to re-think not having pacers. Unlike track runners who can be hugely successful without running superfast times like Mo Farah, marathoners, who can only run a couple races a year, NEED fast times to get invited to the best races and get the highest appearance fees. Winning every race in say, 2:08 to 2:11, while it might be good for your bank account, isn't going to get you to the top in marathoning.
I'm not sure Bekele is a good case example here.
He is not a wannabe-elite, nor even a world-class elite; he is a historic-class runner, who has amassed medals and records beyond anyone now competing, and therefore his motivations are not representative.
According to this link, Chicago is not particularly fast:http://www.arrs.net/TB_Mara.htmFor a World Record on an American course, Houston might be a better choice.And Paris looks like a better choice than Berlin.
ChicagoRules wrote:
...
I do think it's a "waste" not to utilize Chicago's course to attempt to bring the WR to an American course. Hyping up a race with "So and So is going to attempt the WR" would draw me in more than saying "Kirui vs. Chumba vs. Whoever".
...
I would like to see the 4 WMM events that either use rabbits or have recently (Chicago, Berlin, Tokyo, London) get together and maybe come up with a rotation for how that would work. Maybe rotate it so that every fall/spring 1 of the races has rabbits and the other doesn't and then it flips the next year, so it looks something like this:
2017 rabbited races:
London, Chicago
2017 non-rabbited races:
Boston, Tokyo, Worlds, Berlin, NYC
2018 rabbited races:
Tokyo, Berlin
2018 non-rabbited races:
Boston, London, Chicago, NYC.
More evidence on how unimpressive the times were in Chicago:
From
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7776067#ixzz4NXw1kaSWIt's fine to say that fast times aren't the only consideration IF the runners are actually capable of running fast times. Centro winning 1500m gold in a time of 3:50 doesn't reflect badly on the quality of the field since we know that everyone in the field could have run in at least the low 3:30's this year in a race that plays out differently.
But did Chicago actually put together a fast field? Kirui hasn't been under 2:08 since 2012. Was he capable this year? Or was he just lucky that there wasn't anyone in the race capable of running faster times.