Son's Coach is not good

What makes you think you could do better?

By the way numb nuts what can you do in a week? Nothing.

Volunteer for the job next year is you think you can do better

I am by no means a professional on the topic, just someone who enjoys reading about running.

You seem to be confused about the running workouts/types of run. Basically, you give your body a stimulus so it can adapt while running. Adaptions can include changes to the aerobic or anaerobic system as well as muscle strength improvement. The aerobic and anaerobic systems are the two systems that power us when we run. It's a little hard to describe but basically aerobic is for long distance runners and aerobic is for sprinters. Middle distance runners train both. Since we are talking about cross country we want to train the aerobic system. We can do that by stimulating the aerobic system effectively. Read more about aerobic conditioning for long distance runners here:

https://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/the-importance-of-aerobic-running/

There can be different stimuli such as running itself or cross training.

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There are several different types of running stimuli aka workouts:

The main types of running workouts:

Recovery Run.

Base Run.

Long Run.

Progression Run.

Fartlek.

Hill Repeats.

Tempo Run.

To read more about each of these runs, please go to this link:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/06/training/running-101-the-8-basic-types-of-runs_7984

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Other sorts of stimuli can be called cross training which can include weights, yoga, biking, swimming, etc. Basically you can still work on your aerobic base while not running. This would preferably be with zero impact activities such as the previously mentioned examples.

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Hopefully you understand what your son's coach is doing. He seems to know what he is doing in terms of workout structure. However, the workout with the 100m and 200m repeats is kind of useless to endurance athletes. This workout improves the anaerobic system which is useless to distance runners.

The coach probably wanted to improve the kids' "final kick". However, just doing sprints is ineffective. I would suggest that the coach add strides to the end of each easy or long run. If he wants more a structured workout to improve the kick, I would suggest progression runs, hill sprints, or adding 6-12 200m-400m repeats AT THE END of a easy run. The difference is that instead of doing a short warmup and then sprints, you get to target both the aerobic and anareobic systems instead of just one.

The rest of the week looks fine to me. Just make sure:

-the kids are having fun

-do your core work

-keep easy training days easy and hard training days hard

-always warmup

-try to keep the kids injury free (increase weekly mileage slowly is a good start)

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Hopefully I didn't just ramble and actually help you. Good luck to your son and everyone on the team.

This really helped a confused parent who is trying to help her son. She clearly stated she wants to help the coach not replace it.

Come on, you guys can't possibly think this training is in any way appropriate for a high school runner. There's a reason that we have schools that have 10 kids under 16 and others of similar size with the best guy running 17:xx. It's not the talent, it's the coaching and team dynamic. That mileage is about 15-20/week, in no way does that prepare athletes for a fast 5k. OP, I'd go to the coach and say you would like to assistant coach and talk with him about helping the coach with training/logistics. Then see how much you can gear the training to something a bit better.

So... wrote:

That mileage is about 15-20/week, in no way does that prepare athletes for a fast 5k.

So, your answer is to rapidly increase the volume? Great. They'll run slowly over much more running, perhaps an injury or three.

We don't know what kind of base the kids have, so, maybe 15-20 is "where they are." The training isn't ideal. But, volunteering to "get the program on track" is best avoided. You aren't volunteering.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

So... wrote:

That mileage is about 15-20/week, in no way does that prepare athletes for a fast 5k.

So, your answer is to rapidly increase the volume? Great. They'll run slowly over much more running, perhaps an injury or three.

We don't know what kind of base the kids have, so, maybe 15-20 is "where they are." The training isn't ideal. But, volunteering to "get the program on track" is best avoided. You aren't volunteering.

I didn't say what the solution was, but if the first guy on the team is running 20 minutes there's a problem. Also, there's 3 days of running a week I see there. I don't think most of those kids would burn out running 5 miles a day on 6 days a week even going from where they are now. Somehow, we ran a lot more than that at my Highschool and we incorporated freshman into the program just fine.

So... wrote:

I didn't say what the solution was, but if the first guy on the team is running 20 minutes there's a problem. Also, there's 3 days of running a week I see there. I don't think most of those kids would burn out running 5 miles a day on 6 days a week even going from where they are now. Somehow, we ran a lot more than that at my Highschool and we incorporated freshman into the program just fine.

You disagree with the current team training and your answer is to "volunteer" to fix the process in a matter that agrees with you. Not much freely given time in that scenario.

Parent, many parents are in your shoes. Sounds like a small school not many on the team? Wanted to mention a few things. Tempo runs are a high end paced run based off of the runners best race time. Coach Salazar explains, in a video, for HS runners. He says, a 4 mile is good for HS. Lets take the runners best 5k that he can run on the track. Now I am talking right now about a top HS runner. Say this runner goes all out on the track for the 5k or 3.1 mile.

He runs a 15:30 3.1 mile on the track. Ten days later I plan a Tempo run for him. The 15:30 equates to about 5:00 minutes per mile. So Tempo would be about 15 seconds slower per mile on this 4 mile were doing. So 5:15 0r 5:20 per mile in this 4 mile. He warms up first, jogs and stretches etc. It take time to get ahold of that pace. Maybe he starts with a 2and 3/4 or 3 mile Tempo at 5:30's. The goal for this runner is to get up there to the 5:15's. It is very late in the season now. American Fork HS Utah, starts at about 2nd or 3rd week of May. A 13 week stretch of easy base mileage is recorded. About first week of June practice is inserted. Top guy are asked to log say a 750 mile total at end of 13 week. Ladies much less and JV less or course. Practice could be workouts of 5x1000, 4x1600, 6x300 hills. I would suggest searching for American Fork HS coach and training for AF. Many videos and explanations from their coach. IMHO he is the best HS coach there is.

Don't interfere. You will only cause problems. The coach is the coach. The fact that you are a runner does not mean you are an expert on running.

BTW, not that most people on this forum are rational enough to care, but there is no evidence that mileage is necessary to develop 5K runners.

Asdfghjkl wrote:

BTW, not that most people on this forum are rational enough to care, but there is no evidence that mileage is necessary to develop 5K runners.

Is there evidence that it isn't? Cause, if not, your post is as meaningless as this one.

Parent:

Stay the hell out of the equation. We have enough parents who think they know what they are doing and usually it ends up badly. How about this scenario. What if the coach volunteered to come in and help you do your job better. How would you feel? I would suggest speaking with the AD at the school to inquire if they would fund the coach to attend coaching workshops or USTFCCA academy. Anything to support as assist the coach to grow and develop.

So... wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

So, your answer is to rapidly increase the volume? Great. They'll run slowly over much more running, perhaps an injury or three.

We don't know what kind of base the kids have, so, maybe 15-20 is "where they are." The training isn't ideal. But, volunteering to "get the program on track" is best avoided. You aren't volunteering.

I didn't say what the solution was, but if the first guy on the team is running 20 minutes there's a problem. Also, there's 3 days of running a week I see there. I don't think most of those kids would burn out running 5 miles a day on 6 days a week even going from where they are now. Somehow, we ran a lot more than that at my Highschool and we incorporated freshman into the program just fine.

Wow you know less than the coach! 5 to 6 days per week at 10k per day is too much for high school kids who have not slowly built up to that distance.

Oh and who ever said coaching beats out talent is so wrong. Coaching falls a distant third in the equation after TALENT and DESIRE

A real collegiate coach wrote:

Parent:

Stay the hell out of the equation. We have enough parents who think they know what they are doing and usually it ends up badly. How about this scenario. What if the coach volunteered to come in and help you do your job better. How would you feel? I would suggest speaking with the AD at the school to inquire if they would fund the coach to attend coaching workshops or USTFCCA academy. Anything to support as assist the coach to grow and develop.

How about I volunteer to help you? I'd like to coach at the collegiate level too!

That said, your last sentence actually contradicts your first. Talking to the AD would be getting involved with the equation even though your suggestion of the coach attending coaching workshops would be a good idea.

As your assistant volunteer I would politely suggest to you that you might suggest that the parent in question not talk directly to the AD (as that looks like he is going over the coach's head) but actually ask the coach what he thought about attending a coaching seminar together... maybe the parent says he'd like to know more about the sport and he's found a seminar which sounds like it could be a good one. Parent covering cost.

What do you think boss? Do you have an opening???

So... wrote:

Come on, you guys can't possibly think this training is in any way appropriate for a high school runner. There's a reason that we have schools that have 10 kids under 16 and others of similar size with the best guy running 17:xx. It's not the talent, it's the coaching and team dynamic. That mileage is about 15-20/week, in no way does that prepare athletes for a fast 5k.

Actually they're doing about 10 miles per week.

I'd encourage your son to train and prepare for the races on his own, and to screw around when doing the stuff the coach advocates, other than the 4 mile, as those things would do nothing but hurt his progression in the 5km.

I ran a 2 mile before practice every day in high school, which I feel helped me quite a bit.

El Hefe wrote:

What makes you think you could do better?

By the way numb nuts what can you do in a week? Nothing.

Volunteer for the job next year is you think you can do better

Dude, why come out blasting? He is just trying to help out.

BTW, apart from the tone, I think this would be a good approach, i.e. thinking long term involvement and team development.

Parent,

Why not do the obvious? No sarcasm is intended here. I really mean this:

You coach him.

It's as easy as that. You do not need permission from the school. You do not need to tell anyone at the school. You have better ideas than the losers working for the school. Again, seriously. No sarcasm.

He wouldn't be part of the school team. That's another benefit of doing it father-son. Look at Alana Hadley. Most of the MB thinks she's a joke yet none of them ever post any info on an U-18 runnere anywhere in the US even finishing a 10k much less anything longer. Is Mark Hadley the world's greatest coach? Perhaps not, but as mentioned, no other middle/high school Americans have even participated in long-distance running during the last decade or 2, so he's doing something right.

Something to be said about kids putting trust and faith in the person who cares about them most. You even read LRC and so know more than most. He couldn't end up in better hands.

Nothing you can do now if conference was last week. Maybe the problem is with the school if they can't even field a complete team.

You want to get better? Run every day. As you get better run it faster and slowly add mileage.

Start there.

[quote]parent wrote:

Monday - easy running, no weights, don't do anything hard;

Tuesday - easy again, plus the short warmup, 400 stride, 8 x 100 strides, 8 x 200 strides, all just easy to moderate to loosen up for tomorrow, 1 mile warmdown;

Wed - 4 miles at a good pace, use this as a moderate race rehearsal;

Thursday - easy running around, on your own if you have to ~ no dodgeball;

Friday - 5K race. Aim to be first on the team, then first in league, and keep improving your time.

Saturday ~ easy running for endurance and recovery;

Sunday ~ easy running for endurance and recovery;

Don't overdo it.

Just adding a bit every day can help quite a bit, and adjust it from there