Esche Proposal - NCAA Division One Cross Country

did you see the difference wrote:

Duke was actually in the NCAA tourney at that point. Providence never made it.

Not true. Providence was in the NCAA Regionals. They didn't make it to the round of 31. Duke didn't make it to the Round of 32.

What he did was like 15-20 years ago. Hardly think that calls for s lifetime ban otherwise we would need to fire another 8-10 P5 and G5 coaches and ban them as well. seems not to really be a big deal anymore and he owned up to everything which most people wouldn't do.

I think the current system at least makes it clear that you have to travel and race. There seems to be enough opportunities. But of course money is an issue. I don't have a program that's ever been close but we try to have a full track program at a smaller school with 8.5 scholarships.

My heart still aches for my Blue Devils in '12.

Duke had to qualify for the NCAA tournament which directly leads to the winning of a title. Providence did not have to qualify for the regional meet which does not directly lead to the winning of a title.

If it wasn't a part of the NCAAs then they wouldn't have been eliminated. Advancing to the championship's first criteria: your NCAA regional finish. It clearly is a part of the NCAA since they didn't advance because of their performance. Qualify for it or not, it IS part of the NCAA Championship.

So you are saying the Regional meet is the first round of the NCAA Championship?

It is run by the NCAA. It is called the NCAA Regional. Run poorly and get eliminated. Run well and advance. Yes. Obviously it is the first round.

Have any of you considered the thought that some programs (and their administrators) want to be done after the conference XC meet. Many administrators wonder why teams are continuing to compete, in an NCAA event no less, after their team just placed 11th at their conference meet. In every other D1 college sport, if your regular season goes crappy and your conference tournament goes crappy, you're done. There are many programs who travel to and compete at the regional XC championships who don't want to be there. They would rather have their athletes home, resting, and preparing for the upcoming track & field season. But if you sit out the regional championship, you miss out on USTFCCCA academic awards and other college coaches use it to negatively recruit against you. Change can be hard, but its the only way for our sport to progress. Cross-country has become irrelevant in the eyes of MANY athletic administrators. They only understand qualifying for "the tournament." We have to bring our sport in line with other NCAA sports and their championships.

People are caught up on not having to qualify for regionals.

This is a push for those who just have XC as a participation, head count sport to eliminate 1 big travel weekend.

THink about it, if 200 teams can eliminate a meet they have to stay overnight at and fly to every year, then administrations will be happy. All of the sudden those XC budgets can be 15,000 a year.

The beauty of the XC is its an all-inclusive tournament. We truly get to find out who the best of the best are. Everyone has an opportunity to run for their dream. To make the big dance, you do it through racing. Mano-a-mano.

Providence women didn't make it because they showed up on race day and didn't perform.

Yes, we have at large bids now, but the bottom line is anyone can make it if they race well on the qualifying day.

With the new system, that goes out the window. The only way you guarantee a spot is if you win as an individual or team conference. If you think regionals now is unfair, wait until you have teams with 8k avg of 27min making "nationals".

We put the control of your destiny NOT in charge of the athletes on the playing field, but in charge of a formula, an algorythm. That's a shame.

Do we really want an RPI like basketball or football? Yep, there are never any unfair picks or dubious selections there...

The unintended consequences for this system will be VERY VERY high. But no one ever thinks about them.

And this is coming from someone who finished 3rd at the regional champs, and by all liklihood should have been at NCAA's. But we didn't execute on race day. We could walk away knowing that we came close, probably should have been there, but our destiny was in our own hands. If we had missed nationals because of a formula, you bet your asses I would be pissed.

Plus this gives the Conference Championships alittle more excitement with not only a championship on the line but also an auto qualifier to the NCAA meet.

d one man wrote:

From what I've read on this I have to say I like it much better. It'll be fun to have announcement parties around the country to see who makes it in.

Hoosier Daddy wrote:

"Real Talk" Kevin-

You speaking about the history of the sport like you were some hall of famer is plain embarrassing. Honestly, you should have a lifetime ban of shame for doing what you did (and you don't deny it) to the student athletes you were entrusted with. You used your position of power in a despicable way and yet you come on these boards flaunting some high position which we should lend respect to? No, you have no such respect from me.

Bravo Hoosier!! real talk right here and i thank you

Kevin, you talk like what you did is "Ancient History". News flash!!! what you did is a great text book example of what you shouldn't do as a coach. Young up and coming coaches are taught by well experienced and respected coaches about your story. You act on here like any of what you say is relevant but in reality you are what puts our profession to shame.

Wait a second here...what Kevin did & owned up to was pretty disgusting & unprofessional to say the least...but what bearing does it have on this conversation? He's offering a very valid perspective on something he was involved directly in for a number of years...and it's a perspective worth hearing. If the discussion was how best to coach women & conduct yourself around those athletes, this would be a different story. But it's not. Any criticism of Kevin's contribution should evaluate the validity of his perspective & points he makes on the issue of qualifying for NCAA's...not pathetic ad hominem attacks.

The amount of hypocrisy in our profession is staggering. I have seen so many of you make fools of yourselves at bars at nationals and the convention. Many of you married and hitting on younger women. Some of you we all know have dated your runners and even a couple of you married to former runners.

What Kevin did was worth being fired. All I have seen him do in four years since being fired is own it, talk about it and even talk about how he should be an example of what not to do. A few of you come on here and act like he broke laws, assaulted someone, killed someone. He dated runners. unethical and unprofessional, yes. Illegal? Immoral? no. I know he is speaking at a couple of Athletic Departments this fall to tell his story in hopes of helping prevent other people from ruining their career like he did.

I do not agree with his feeling that the system is good. I do agree he has a great perspective and although not an HOF coach, he did have a career that far surpassed what most of us have done and he did it as a school like Toledo.

To the main discussion:

I think that my AD would be much more interested in our sport if we had to advance to the NCAA Regional by winning our conference. I have never coached a conference championship team. Never been to the NCAAs as a team. I wish we had a way of 64 team like most other sports, but I am not even sure if we would make it, if it were.

People, are we seriously acting as if we don't already travel to meets across the country to gain invaluable criteria points? Which are then our only way of possibly having a shot in hell of making it to Nationals... (Speaking of deep regions). This proposal only smooths out what we already are doing. It levels the playing field by allowing a network of body of work to get you into the one big meet that pits you head to head for a chance to dance.

Take a team out west that never travels, but is good enough to possibly go to nationals in its current format.... I think we can all agree that if such a team wants a shot to go to nationals, they will need to add one of the big invitationals to their schedule as a top 2 finish is not likely for a 25-35 team.

So, that being said, they travel to one big meet and the rest are local dual meets and their conference meet..... This would give them SO much more opportunity under the proposed system to make it to the new "first round" where they would have a chance to punch their ticket...... And I mean ACTUALLY punch their ticket, not in the way we currently use the term to describe a top 20 finish at Wisco.

Reading through all of the mock selections, there is not a single good team that gets left out. More excitement to make it to the meet....as right now, I may coach a dozen teams from 25-35 and we really have zero chance at nationals or feeling like we were rewarded for a historic season. Why should generations of athletes never have a chance at qualifying for the first round of nationals? This is a moot issue for big schools or teams that are fully funded, but for the majority, unless we change things up, nationals will always be a pipe dream.

If you have a team capable of making nationals and you only travel once then that's your fault, not the system. You have a budget it's your job to figure it out. Blaming the system for your decision to not travel or your budget makes no sense.

And you are taking about one team that "maybe" can finish 25-31.

Glad to see Esche still poking his giant schnoz around every where he goes. He was a douche back in the day and clearly he is still a douche now.

Seriously, you think the regular season carries enough weight now. Look at Wisconsin - they have only run a 4-mile and 6K race this season. Backed out of ND because their 4 & 5 runners were sick (they have 14 runners on the roster -- whatever happened to the "next man" up). Their only race this season will be Wisco. They play this game every year because there is no system in place.

Clearly Esche is Hooiser Daddy. Agreed. Was douche in college. Douche at Bradley. Still a douche. Keep blaming the system for your inability to coach. "Rewarded for a historic season?" Yuh.