Chicago Runners Launch App That Helps Everyone Take, Buy Race Photos

I reached out to the guys through that support box they have on their site. They said that they'll open it up to specific races that photographers request. I do question the profit margins to host all that data though for them. Wonder what the end game here is for them?

Contacted The Site wrote:

I reached out to the guys through that support box they have on their site. They said that they'll open it up to specific races that photographers request. I do question the profit margins to host all that data though for them. Wonder what the end game here is for them?

Seems like it will be a cool platform for any event, not just sports. My guess is they are running a BETA with the Chicago Marathon and will see how it goes. Is storage really that high? How bad can it be? I mean, sites like Insta are getting hit with millions of photos an hour and they can pull it off. These guys will have peak weekends following a race but I am sure they have thought of that. Plus, they'll likely purge photos after a certain amount of time if they don't sell. Doesn't appear to be a storage site, just a transaction platform.

I think it'll be cool and the risk is small compared to other startups. If storage space is your main cost, your risk is minimal. I think this will attract good photographers who actually want to sell their pictures. Sure, you'll get yahoos adding a bunch of photos at first, but they'll figure out that it is a waste of their time after one or two races and stop. Plus, if they have some sort of filter to reject irrelevant pictures without bib numbers it will be nice.

I would think they could work with a race and add some sort of QR to the bib that is easier to track from angles.

Anyone from Marathon Photo know how they normally work with races? Profit sharing? Do they pay the race? Does the race pay them?

New York NY wrote:

That's illegal. Chi Mara has to give you a credential or you can't take copyrighted pictures of runners. You are going to jail.

You don't understand copyright.

You can't sell images with copyrighted logos. Phoenix just ordered the Trump Campaign to stop using city and police logos. Thus it's likely the marathon folks will sue the app people to get a substantial cut to help defray costs for Chicago PD and FD employees.

$5 is a HUGE amount per photo! That is my point. I WISH that's how MarathonFoto paid their photographers, haha. I'd be rich. A full marathon typically nets me $300-500 for 7-8 hours of shooting.

You misunderstood what I wrote before. Marathonfoto does not just sell 500-1500 photos per race... they sell 500-1500 per photographer per race. At Chicago, boston, and NYC there are over 100 marathonfoto photographers stationed throughout the course. At the $5 price point this app is offered, one photographer could make $2,500-$7,500 while the app company would only make $750-$2,250. Only 21% margins for the app company. That's terrible for the amount of data they'll have to store and marketing they'll have to do.

In what other business does the labor make over 70% of the gross sale?!?!

Misunderstoood wrote:

ekw wrote:

Not practical at that price point.

What is not practical? No one is forced to buy anything, right? If there is a good picture of you, you buy it for $6.50. If not, you don't buy it. I am not sure what the problem is, but please let us know b/c I might use this in Chicago.

I meant not practical for the app company and WAY too lucrative for the photographer (and that means something since I am the photographer). It seems like a great deal for the customer as long as the quality of the photo is there.

I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree with the comparison of camera phone photos and professional quality DSLR photos. It has NOTHING to do about "how well it blows up to a bigger size". lol. In fact most camera phones produce photos that are larger (more megapixels) vs DSLRs but they all have WAY smaller sensors. Megapixels are not something professional sports photographers really care about. It's all about sharpness, freezing the action (sometimes) shallow depth of field, vibrant natural colors, and low light capabilities. A camera phone just cannot compete. And SIZE has nothing to do with it.

These dudes obviously just copied the pricing scheme off Uber. Uber takes about a 20% cut with the driver making around 80%

Why not just sell the iPhone pictures yourself by posting to the Chicago Marathon twiitter and instagram #hashtags, and collect 100% via paypal.

"In what other business does the labor make over 70% of the gross sale?!?!"

Uber, which is profitable in the USA.

"That's terrible for the amount of data they'll have to store "

Data is VERY cheap. They'll be fine.

You're like the cabbie saying why Uber won't work. You don't understand what they're doing.

ChiMarathon will sue and win. If any picture has the Chicago Marathon logo visible on the bib or anywhere on the picture, it is a violation.

copy write wrote:

ChiMarathon will sue and win. If any picture has the Chicago Marathon logo visible on the bib or anywhere on the picture, it is a violation.

This is why it would be helpful to hear from ekw about how Matathon Foto contracts with races... the app might be much better for the marathon and they might support it.

But even though ekw makes great points about phones v. cameras, it's really a moot point because phones can be used here.

I'm not sure ekw is right about it being too lucrative for the photographers because if they shoot good shoots and people buy them, the app gets paid too. App doesn't care about the $5 because they get their $1.50. It really does get people out the door producing good work.

If you're only making $500 for 7 hours of work, that's pretty terrible for wasting an entire Sat/Sun. Only huge running fans are going to want to do that. More incentive might get better photographers out there working. Runners certainly won't mind wading through 150 photos of themselves after the race. It's exactly what they want. Marathon Foto usually has like 3 pictures that actually work out, and they are always at the same spot for everyone. This will mix things up and give runners more options. Currently, Marathon Foto photographers are incentivized to stay in one spot and get the same boring picture of every person. This will change that...

We all know storage is not an issue. Come on.

The app, presuming it works, will allow runners to easily find themselves via bib number. You can not do that by sharing photos via twitter or instagram (assuming that question was serious).

ekw has some good points, but wrote:

But even though ekw makes great points about phones v. cameras, it's really a moot point because phones can be used here.

GROAN!!!

I meant that DSLR CAMERAS can be used with the app. So real photographers can participate, not just Yahoos with phones.

Couple of notes, firstly, Uber is not profitable.

Secondly, this app is still cool. It is insanely disruptive and for the person who said it may be worth it for photographers, who cares, it's worth it for someone with a phone.

Let's say I am at Chicago Marathon trying to watch my friends race. While on the course, I snap a few hundred photos since I'll only see my friend 4x in 3-4 hours.

Half of my photos are trash, but a few are really good and I make $70 while watching my buddy? Is that not an awesome experience?

Lastly, as far as storage, they'll eventually move to email campaigning, and they could market that photos are only available for 30-60 days after the event.

Also, this can be used for every sporting event first and then regular events (conferences, etc).

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More:

Paying a person 70% of the cost of the photo is fine because that is a backend cost. You could also look at it as receiving photos for free and charging $1.50.

The only concerns are 1) storage and 2) the fact that they have to use non traditional post race marketing to let people know there photo is waiting. I received an email from marathonphoto. These guys will have to find some tech to he bibs and results to scrape names me then get emails.

Lo lol wrote:

Let's say I am at Chicago Marathon trying to watch my friends race. While on the course, I

The only concerns are 1) storage and 2) the fact that they have to use non traditional post race marketing to let people know there photo is waiting. I received an email from marathonphoto. These guys will have to find some tech to he bibs and results to scrape names me then get emails.

The post race marketing is where they could potentially run into a legal minefield.

If the Chicago Marathon wanted to go after them, they wouldn't get anywhere trying to claim copyright on the race photos.

If the app is advertising them as Chicago Marathon photos, they could possibly get them for using their name. If they have some kind of search function for bib numbers, the marathon could claim they have a copyright to the bib numbers in that context.

I don't know that they could win a court case with either argument, but they could get their day in court forcing the app makers to incur legal costs.

Unfortunately I do not know how Marathonfoto contracts with races. I am just a photographer for them; I do not work in their offices in Iowa. I will say that I believe Marathonfoto has to PAY chicago/nycrr/BAA to be the official photographer company. I can also take an educated guess that marathonfoto spends hundreds of thousands per year per chicago/nyc/boston race just in costs related to logistics and labor. Many of the 100+ photographers for each of those major races are flown in from around the country and put up into nice hotels (doubletree etc) including renting large conference rooms and banquet halls for pre race meetings. Public transportation costs like subway rides and taxis/ubers, rental vans and rental cars... The list goes on and on. Occasionally they rent a helicopter for 1 of the photographers to take aerial shots. EVERYTHING is paid for by Marathonfoto. They also own all of the photography equipment the photographers use. The large marathons are VERY lucrative for marathonfoto. Millions of photographs end up being taken during each of those 3 races alone.

On the contrary, many of the marathonfoto photographers have full time photo-related jobs M-F. I happen to be a running fan and a photography fan but I have an unrelated job M-F. I end up making about 5-6k per year shooting these races as just a hobby. For me, making 500 in a day is about 40% more than my regular M-F daily income.. and it's something I enjoy doing. All letsrun-everyone-makes-300k-per-year-kidding-aside, $500 is not chump change for a day's work.

Lo lol wrote:

Paying a person 70% of the cost of the photo is fine because that is a backend cost. You could also look at it as receiving photos for free and charging $1.50.

Why give up 30% when you can sell your own pics yourself via grams/tweets?

30% NOT wrote:

Why give up 30% when you can sell your own pics yourself via grams/tweets?

You're missing the entire point of the app, which is the functionality of the bib search. Are people supposed to just wade through 150,000 tweets and hope they find a picture of themselves?

copy write wrote:

ChiMarathon will sue and win. If any picture has the Chicago Marathon logo visible on the bib or anywhere on the picture, it is a violation.

They can search for recognizable logos while searching for recognizable bib numbers and then blur the logos. Very feasible, particularly now when they're only dealing with one race.