No, you would lose out on more value by seceding from a semi-free society than the government will take away from you if you stay
No, you would lose out on more value by seceding from a semi-free society than the government will take away from you if you stay
sc42 wrote:
I suppose 'off the grid' means different things to different people without a little more definition, but I did live in a one room hut for 9 years with no running water (we got it from a village well in 60 liter drums), no phone, no internet, no refrigeration and no electricity other than what one 43W solar panel put out (a couple of lights and a laptop, down sometimes to just one light in the rainy season). No heat either, but near the equator so it did not matter.
I was happy and extremely productive. I would do it again.
Intrigued. 9 years is a while! I would love to hear more; specifically where, why and about your productivity. What were you doing?
My idea of getting off the grid is a long backpacking trip. I spend too much time looking at gear online and tracking possible treks. I'm not in a place in life right now that I can take off for 4-6 months to do it, but I look forward to the time I can. The short backpacking trips I've taken were wonderful.
off the grid is almost impossible.
Sure you can go with no phone and live in a cash only world but here is the US what we call off the grid is "homeless"
Look buddy, just because your little garden didn't grow when you were a kid is no reason to assume an intelligent adult can't grow a garden and raise a cow and some chickens.
Bob Schul Country wrote:
off the grid is almost impossible.
Sure you can go with no phone and live in a cash only world but here is the US what we call off the grid is "homeless"
you'd be surprised at how many homeless people I see if cell phones. I wouldn't even call them off the grid.
hike dreamer wrote:
My idea of getting off the grid is a long backpacking trip. I spend too much time looking at gear online and tracking possible treks. I'm not in a place in life right now that I can take off for 4-6 months to do it, but I look forward to the time I can. The short backpacking trips I've taken were wonderful.
I here ya dreamer! My gear research addiction is intense.. So intense that I worked in the industry for 12 years!
While it is fun to hike 4 to 6 months, getting out for 2-3 weeks is pretty amazing. I've done both the PCT (100 days) and some awesome shorter multi week trips - alps, Patagonia, Nepal. I would say that if you can carve out 2 weeks of backcountry time the benefits are immense.
Getting "off the grid" could be as simple as quitting your job and moving somewhere else to focus on things you like. Before I was married with a family I was in a position where I could have done that. Had a solid nest egg to buy housing and support my living needs without the need to work. My career experience was such that I could have gone back to working without too much hassle so there was a further safety net. What ultimately stopped me from doing anything was the realization that I'm just as happy working here as I would be doing nothing somewhere else. Work sucks but it also gives you purpose and provides a form of social stimulation. Add to that the fact that I would have been leaving friends and family behind and it didn't seem worth it, despite the romantic notions of a "new life." Best way to scratch that itch would be to take periodic sabbaticals from work, but with kids that's not really an option. On the whole though, much happier with kids.
My brother in law has lived in a Colorado canyon, 6 miles from phone and electricity-no cell service-for 25 years. Now has satellite internet, but didn't for many years. Uses windmills, solar cells and a water wheel to generate electricity. He is quite the scrounger, but even with that, I suspect he spends far more money than I do on electricity per KW-hour. The trick to making it work is conservation. He has a dishwasher, but cut the wire to the electric heater in it. For years he had a propane refrigerator, but when it died, he upped his batteries and inverter to handle a small electric refrigerator. I've seen bigger units in college dorm rooms. His home is very dim at night. He has satellite TV and a microwave-and heats with wood. Mostly cooks with propane.
He is constantly fixing windmills, and waterwheels, and fussing with his system-which is essentially a productive hobby. He has a really cool diesel standalone engine manufactured in India using US patents that expired 75 years ago--uses that to turn a generator to top off his batteries in the dead of winter when his solar can't keep up.
He is not saving much money, however. Where I live in suburbia, I pay about 1 dollar a day for water and slightly less than that for sewer, and about 2 dollars for electricity, and 50 cents for natural gas. He has no monthly bill (except for propane and diesel) but when his batteries die every three or four years, he's writing a big check. Solar panels are far cheaper than they were twenty years ago, but he has thousands of dollars that are sitting on his roof that would likely be generating higher returns in the stock market.
Most young people today can't do anything or even imagine life without checking a smartphone every few minutes. Off the grid? Perish the thought..
Back in 1999, I had just finished dental school; and came home early one afternoon to find my wife in bed with our neighbor. We had no kids, and immediately filed for divorce. My dental school bills were massive (~$125k), and I took a 4 year contract on an Indian reservation in northern Montana to resolve my dental school loans. Basically, I was fed up with all the ephemeral trappings of life, and really sad from the end of what I had assumed to be a lifelong relationship. I have no siblings, and my parents passed in a car accident when I was in high school. So, I really had nothing keeping me. I spent 4 years there on this reservation treating patients. I had no tv, and really only drove when going into the mountains. Of course, a cell phone had no use; and rarely used a house phone. I grew into the culture, and become somewhat accepted. I treated one of the "higher ups" my first week there, and he took me under his wing. As a city guy, I was infatuated with learning to fish and hunt. I quickly forgot about the world outside our reservation. I ate all wild game and vegetables grown right there. My mental acuity increased, and I my endurance was better than it had ever been (29:32 for 10k in college). In fact, I didn't even hear about the 911 attacks until Thanksgiving. I'll never forget that. I still return every year to the reservation on Christmas to see my old friends, and thank them for the life changing experience that they provided me. Anyway, that's my story of going "off the grid" in a sense...there's something to be said for doing it.
Ugh, heap good story Paleface.
Real people wrote:
that's my story of going "off the grid" in a sense...there's something to be said for doing it.
What do you bring with you from that time? Do you still have an off the grid type of mentality? How is life these days?
But who actually wants to pursue this reality? Typically someone of a more middle class, middle age make up with some assets underneath them. Let's guess a $500k house, that they'll have $300k in equity on. Purchase a few acres for $200k, another $100k towards a small dwelling and some infrastructure. Again, this is a type of person whose resourceful, thrifty and aiming to be self-sufficient; they'll stretch their dollars.
Assuming this isn't a drop-it-all-and-go situation, land could be acquired, a dwelling could be built over ensuing months and years, then when ready to move into, they house in the burbs could be sold and pay off the land purchase. PV, wind, well are costly, but not terribly so if you have the proper planning to go into the project.
humongous deck wrote:
Thinker of deep thoughts wrote:I can't do it because my wife loves the luxuries of life too much. But the thought of being beholden to nobody and free to do whatever your heart pleases does have a certain appeal. In addition, the most enjoyable things in life really don't cost money yet we have an insatiable desire for more money as a security blanket for the future. We also keep accumulating more stuff because the stuff we have no longer excites us.
Come on. Tell the truth. Have you ever thought about it?
I couldn't even get off crack when I finished college. Now I've got a case of crack lung and my 5k time has dropped from low 17's to low 21's.
I think if you can't get off crack, you couldn't live off the grid.
here is a guy who did it : http://thefieldlab.blogspot.com/
jorvack wrote:
hike dreamer wrote:My idea of getting off the grid is a long backpacking trip. I spend too much time looking at gear online and tracking possible treks. I'm not in a place in life right now that I can take off for 4-6 months to do it, but I look forward to the time I can. The short backpacking trips I've taken were wonderful.
I here ya dreamer! My gear research addiction is intense.. So intense that I worked in the industry for 12 years!
While it is fun to hike 4 to 6 months, getting out for 2-3 weeks is pretty amazing. I've done both the PCT (100 days) and some awesome shorter multi week trips - alps, Patagonia, Nepal. I would say that if you can carve out 2 weeks of backcountry time the benefits are immense.
100 days on the PCT. Saweet.
Really? As far as I know food costs money. A roof over your head costs money. Running water costs money. As does heat and electricity. Hot showers. Indeed, even sex costs money unless you can find a woman who wants to be homeless and live off of dump scavenging.
Where do you get this idea that the best things don't cost money?
Oh, and if you want to grow your own food to avoid paying any money - let me know how easy that is. I've heard it's pretty tough even with a tractor and gasoline and water (and land) and seeds and fertilizer and... all of which cost money. But if you can do it without any money let us know how.
You probably don't have very much sex, considering how thin your penis must be.
Illustrious? Soil amendments?
Seriously, why would you even say that?