Galen Rupp, Shalane Flanagan Among Latest Round of Fancy Bears Hacks

Don't they use IVs frequently and openly in the NFL? I thought they pretty much used them pitch side!

Likely Post Race wrote:

It seems most likely the IV was given post-marathon trials. Flanagan was wasted the last 30+ minutes of the race. A doctor in the med tent could have put her on it, and not cared on bit about the TUE paperwork until days after the race.

I agree that seems more likely.

I just don't want to say I know for sure, since I don't.

And those fat chumps only run for five seconds at a time, never mind a marathon!

I V Freely wrote:

Don't they use IVs frequently and openly in the NFL? I thought they pretty much used them pitch side!

I don't know about on the sidelines, but about 75% of NFL teams use IVs pregame for their players.

Summary/Translation: God Dam Fancy Bears! Why release Data that makes NOP look good. Ah well, I'll just pretend the leaks mean nothing because they don't fit my theory.

In all likelihood? Seriously? Wow, that is some claim. Genuine question. Do you have a shred of evidence that's what NOP are doing? Or are you talking out of your ass and using the same logic as those who were convinced NOP were abusing TUEs and have since been proven to be false.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

I V Freely wrote:

Don't they use IVs frequently and openly in the NFL? I thought they pretty much used them pitch side!

I don't know about on the sidelines, but about 75% of NFL teams use IVs pregame for their players.

Yes I think I've just found the same survey you might have, dated 2011 and quoting 75%

1) Yes it is a lot. You make 4 or 5 athletes over 10 years sound like some small proportion of elite level athletes with hyperthyroidism. Salazar really has not coached that many people in 10 years.

2) NOP connected with Fancy Bears - No, we don't believe that conspiracy theory crap. What is a possibility is they didn't get all of the information. What about the 2 TUEs after 2010?

3) Deep down I DO think they can get away with micro-dosing for the past 10 years. They have doctors paid at their disposable. No halfway competent doctor is going to let them fail a drug test. Did you read about the Jama raid? They found 60 syringes of EPO at the training hotel and not one of the athletes failed the drug test.

Once the Micro-Dosing theory is disproved by evidence, they'll just come up with a 4th theory and then a 5th theory and so forth. Unfortunately, When you start hating a group and don't use reason or evidence, then anything goes. You can make up the most baseless accusations, and you don't need anything to support it.

Next, they'll say NOP controls USATF and the IAAF and WADA. Wasn't there a picture of Seb Coe, Centro and Farah posing together during the Olympics? I'm sure Seb Coe is in on it it somehow! (I have no evidence)

Well, we know that besides Rupp, Salazar himself was on thyroid medication. We know Amy Cragg and Kara Goucher were. We have also heard that Salazar pitched around thryoid meds as a good way to cut weight. As to who else was/is taking it, who knows? Just those 4 names, in a relatively small group of extremely fit people, is enough to arouse suspicion. I doubt any recent NOPer on thyroid meds is going to mention it, since they don't have to, and it will just open them up to accusations (justifiably).

So Salazar and his star pupil both happen to have thyroid conditions? That's an odd coincidence. His star female for several years also did. Given that we also know that Bob Kennedy and Ryan Hall also took thyroid medications, we have arguably the 4 biggest US names in male distance running of the era from the 1980s onward - all of them NR-holders with the exception of Hall (who should have been) - have thyroid conditions. And we're not suppose to question that, or suspect that there is a possibility that a non-TUE-requiring drug is being used unethically?

As for "So now we are on to the 3rd, Micro-Dosing Testosterone/EPO. Deep down I don't think anybody really believes they can get away with this for the last 10 years." You're joking, right?

I can't believe that the Australian ping pong player and Galen Rupp both use the same performance-enhancing drug! (prednisolone)

It must work so well!

Kara Goucher was on Thyroid Medication long before she came to Salazar. She introduced Salazar to her Thyroid doctor who went on to treat Galen. Amy Cragg doesn't train with Salazar. So we are still at only Galen as an NOP athlete with Thyroid.

Where do you read he was pushing it to cut weight? I remember Salazar showing this was not the case as Kara tried to lead us to believe. Was there another instance I'm not aware of?

Galen is tested 25 plus times a year in and out of competition. If he was micro dosing, the chances of it showing up in just 1 test out of 250 or so would probably be pretty good?

Delta187 wrote:

Galen is tested 25 plus times a year in and out of competition. If he was micro dosing, the chances of it showing up in just 1 test out of 250 or so would probably be pretty good?

No. A previous poster referred to the Jama raid. None of those athletes tested positive and that was a surprise appearance by IAAF/WADA.

What everyone keeps forgetting is that you don't need a TUE out of competition for corticosteroids. These docs are only for in competition

The Yellow Jumper wrote:

What everyone keeps forgetting is that you don't need a TUE out of competition for corticosteroids. These docs are only for in competition

Inhaled corticosteroids have not required a TUE either in or out of competition since 2009.

There are some other things that Dr. Jeffrey Brown (in Texas) does not want to talk about in a deposition, which would be a sworn statement to be used as evidence in a court of law. Dr. Brown and his lawyer are fighting against having to give a deposition.

The head guy at USADA is Travis Tygart. He has some questions that he would like to ask Dr. Jeffrey Brown... that Dr. Jeffrey Brown does not want to answer.

I think that the questions might be about:

Alberto Salazar is the person with the prescription for Androgel. His experiments on his 2 experimental subjects (sons) used up to 4 squirts, which would be a total dose of 50 mg. of testosterone in the total 5,000 mg. application of the 1% strength testosterone gel (in 4 squirts). When he then did urine T/E (testosterone/epitestosterone) ratio testing, they had T/E ratio results around 2.8:1.

Coach Alberto Salazar consulted with Dr. Jeffrey Brown in Texas on the "Possible Sabotage of Galen Rupp with Only Androgel (and no other possible drug) Experiments" results.

There are other possible drugs that could be used to "sabotage Galen Rupp." Alberto Salazar did not test any other drugs. He did not test any other people but his two sons. He did not test any females. I guess Alberto was not concerned about possible sabotage of his female runners.

He only tested Androgel on his two experimental subjects. In one experiment they ran. In the other experiment they played basketball.

Alberto Salazar sure is a genius scientist… and a coach.

Alberto Salazar is not a doctor. Alberto Salazar broke various state and federal drug laws when he dispensed and administered a schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug to his 2 "experimental subjects" (his 2 sons). The two experimental subjects did not have a prescription for Androgel (testosterone gel). It is illegal to dispense or administer a schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug to any other person who does not have a prescription from a doctor for that drug. Alberto Salazar has a history of liking to "play doctor". Alberto Salazar is a coach who has broken various federal and state drug laws. He should go to jail.

Hey Albuterol Salbuterol Androgel Salazar.

Sleep well.

(Do you need some Ambien to help you sleep?)

Oh yea.

(I am feeling more perky now.)

bobgob wrote:

Summary/Translation: God Dam Fancy Bears! Why release Data that makes NOP look good. Ah well, I'll just pretend the leaks mean nothing because they don't fit my theory.

Well, Alison--the UK PR drone paid by NOPers to put positive spin--you have no theory of any kind. NOP doesn't look good in any way. I realize you are new here, no nothing about running. You know about marketing and PR for, wait what, pharmaceuticals. LOL . . .

Alison James : "Draws on a further 10 years broad experience as a marketing professional in the pharmaceutical, food and marketing sectors.".

Delta187 wrote:

Kara Goucher was on Thyroid Medication long before she came to Salazar. She introduced Salazar to her Thyroid doctor who went on to treat Galen. Amy Cragg doesn't train with Salazar. So we are still at only Galen as an NOP athlete with Thyroid.

Where do you read he was pushing it to cut weight? I remember Salazar showing this was not the case as Kara tried to lead us to believe. Was there another instance I'm not aware of?

Galen is tested 25 plus times a year in and out of competition. If he was micro dosing, the chances of it showing up in just 1 test out of 250 or so would probably be pretty good?

I meant Amy Yoder Begley (not Amy Cragg) who was another NOP athlete on thyroid meds. My bad. But it doesn't change the argument.

Salazar did not "show this was not the case" with regard to Kara being told to take additional thyroid medication to lose weight. And anyway, whether or not you can prove that he did/didn't say any particular thing about using thyroid medication to lose weight, that is what it is used for in a doping context. Or at least, that's one of its uses. NOP are not the first group to use thyroid medication as a PED. The fact that thyroid medication is used as a weight-loss aid by elite athletes, and the fact that a surprisingly large amount of elite runners (especially NOP-ers) have a prescription for thyroid medication, strongly suggests it is being used unethically.

Your statement about how often Galen gets tested is an attempt at confusing the issue. The point with microdosing is that you could get tested every day and still not get caught (if microdosing correctly). You have a time window overnight during which you are free from being subject to a test, and that time window is long enough to metabolise whatever chemicals you are ingesting enough to be within the allowable parameters. That's kinda why people started microdosing in the first place.

Although prednisone and its cousin, prednisolone, are allowed in baseball, they and other glucocorticosteroids are banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

"When administered systemically (into the blood), glucocorticosteroids can produce a feeling of euphoria, potentially giving athletes an unfair advantage," the WADA Web site says.

They are prohibited from competition, including the Olympics and pro sports like tennis and soccer that adhere to the WADA strictures, when administered orally, rectally or injected into the bloodstream or a muscle. An athlete can apply glucocorticosteroids topically for skin rashes and may be allowed to take them for other specific ailments through what's known as a therapeutic-use exemption.

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/A-steroid-that-s-approved-by-baseball-but-not-2587944.php

Alberto Salazar has also done some previous urine testing with Victor Conte, who went to jail in the BALCO scandal which involved THG (tetrahydrogestrinone), Dr. Don Catlin... and a lawyer by the name of Travis Tygart. Travis also got Lance Armstrong…even with death threats against him.

Coach Alberto Salazar was also the coach of Mary Decker Slaney…when her T/E ratio was above a 6:1 ratio…which led to a ban for Ms. Mary Decker Slaney…for elevated testosterone levels.

from Wikipedia:

In 1996, at the age of 37, as she qualified for the 5000 meters at the Atlanta Olympics, Decker became involved in controversy. A urine test taken in June at the Olympic Trials showed a testosterone to epitestosterone (T/E) ratio greater than the allowable maximum of six to one.[12] At the time of the positive test Decker was being coached by Alberto Salazar.[13]

Decker and her lawyers contended that the T/E ratio test is unreliable for women, especially women in their late 30s or older who are taking birth control pills. In the meantime, Decker was eliminated in the heats at the Olympics.[4]

In June 1997, the IAAF banned Decker from competition. In September 1999, a USATF panel reinstated her.[14][15] The IAAF cleared her to compete but took the case to arbitration. In April, 1999, the arbitration panel ruled against her, after which the IAAF – through a retroactive ban, even though she was cleared to compete – stripped her of a silver medal she had won in the 1500 meters at the 1997 World Indoor Championships.[16][17]

In April 1999, Decker filed suit against both the IAAF and the U.S. Olympic Committee which administered the test, arguing that the test is flawed and cannot distinguish between androgens caused by the use of banned substances and androgens resulting from the use of birth control pills.[18] The court ruled that it had no jurisdiction, a decision that was upheld on appeal.[19]

The (T/E) ratio test has seen its standards tightened to a 4:1 ratio, instead of the previous 6:1 ratio, and laboratories now also run a carbon isotope ratio test (CIR) if the ratio is unusually high.[20]

It is just a coincidental synchronicity.

(I have also used the exact same lab as Alberto Salazar…to do hormone testing.)

It is just a coincidental synchronicity…again.

Oh yea.