Galen Rupp, Shalane Flanagan Among Latest Round of Fancy Bears Hacks

habs wrote:

Gray Zone wrote:

It proves that other things (Cytomel) are taken in doses that do not appear in tests. No need for a TUE that can't been seen by the testers.

This isn't true. Cytomel is not a WADA banned substance in any quantity, so you do not need a TUE for it. It's that simple.

In the USA specifically, it is a drug that you need a doctor's prescription to use however (which Rupp and other NOP athletes were able to acquire). In other countries it can be taken over the counter so there is no issue there.

WRONG . . . MORON

Cymotel is a controlled prescription drug. It is not OTC (Over the Counter). What that means is you need a doctor's prescription to get it. A doctor's prescription is what allows a specific individual to use a controlled drug, with amount they can take, and how long they can take it for.

Only stupid people think it is okay for anyone to use prescription drugs that are not prescribed for them.

Backhanded wrote:

I'd say that is still a whole lot "CLEANER" than all of the naysayers on these boards suggest. 5 TUEs in 7 years is nothing. Have you looked at the banned substance list? At this point athletes have to worry about how much caffeine is in their coffee.

Rupp's Cymotel that Salazar was handing out to others is not on the list. It doesn't require a TUE, but somehow that controlled drugs was given out like candy by Salazar.

This article says that Rupp was accused of misusing TUE's for 2011 and some years earlier. I could swear that it was published that he had more recent TUE's than 2009. And no mention of thyroid drugs?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/06/03/reports-allege-doping-violations-by-u-s-track-star-galen-rupp-and-top-coach-alberto-salazar/

Against the spirit of the sport.

I'd be interested to hear Epstein's take on all this. I wonder if he would at all regret what he published.

So here is the updated count -

Galen Rupp = clean

Mo Farah = clean

Paula Radcliffe = dirty

Kara Goucher = dirty

Bernard Lagat = dirty

jTjg wrote:

So here is the updated count -

Galen Rupp = taking a lot of stuff and avoids ask for TUEs

Mo Farah = taking a lot of stuff and avoids ask for TUEs

^Corrected

jTjg wrote:

So here is the updated count -

Galen Rupp = clean

Mo Farah = clean

Paula Radcliffe = dirty

Kara Goucher = dirty

Bernard Lagat = dirty

Also:

Centro = worse than four blind people

Creating a fake quote then calling the person an idiot. Clever.

Now can we get back on topic? Let's start with you explaining the point you are tying to make.

You seem to be butt hurt over a substance that isn't even banned on a thread that is specifically about TUEs for substances that would otherwise cause a positive test.

nowachemist wrote:

LetsRun.com wrote:

Rupp has three TUEs listed, all in 2009, for Methylprednisolone, salmeterol (Advair) and salbutamol (Combivent). Flanagan has one, from 2016, for an IV infusion of sodium chlorine solution on the day of the marathon trials (where she was dehydrated).

http://fancybear.net/pages/5.html

Sodium chloride, you mean. So just a saline drip to make sure she was hydrated for those conditions.

My goodness, that was a REALLY dumb supposition to make. Stick to chemistry.

So far... It seems like the fancybears hack is not doing much to help the claim that non-Russia is abusing the TUE system. When do they release the test results?

PoDC wrote:

On Rupp - how can that be it? What about the thyroid meds?

How many times must we go over this? You don't need a TUE for thyroid meds (or for many asthma medications for that matter).

Yet again, this information shows that TUEs are a red herring.

If you think the WADA rules should be changed to eliminate TUEs or restrict TUEs more, that's a fair argument. If you think the WADA rules should be changed to require a TUE for thyroid medication or to ban thyroid medication, that's also a fair argument. But someone who gets a TUE under the current rules or takes thyroid medication is not cheating under the actual WADA rules as they now exist. It's simply not a violation of any existing rule.

In the case of Salazar, if you believe the allegations, Salazar or his athletes may have violated Oregon or US laws by using someone else's prescription for thyroid medicine. But that would be a violation of law, not of any WADA rule. Using the thyroid is entirely permissible under WADA's rules.

Anyone who is seriously trying to dope in the current environment is probably micro-dosing something like testosterone, steroids, EPO or taking something that is not currently detectable. Those are all things that actually violate existing WADA rules, vs. getting a TUE or taking thyroid supplementation. That's why the most serious allegations against Salazar have always been the chart allegedly showing that Rupp was on testosterone and Salazar's Androgel experiment. If you disbelieve Salazar's explanations (the $64,000 question), then both of these could be taken as evidence of microdosing testosterone. Hopefully, USADA will finish its investigation on this someday.

But the whole TUE "issue" is just a distraction. Very simply, if you have a TUE, you are not cheating under WADA's rules. Disclosing TUEs really only shows that someone is complying with WADA rules, at least with respect to what they report on the TUE.

Wrong, PR Drone. TUEs prove that medal winners cant survive without drugs. The TUE are only required when they get caught and test positive.

Our article is up on this: http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/09/russian-hackers-release-galen-rupp-shalane-flanagan-anti-doping-data/I think people don't understand a few things.1) You don't need a TUE for thyroid drugs. They are not banned. You only need a TUE for drugs that are banned.

jjjjjj wrote:

This article says that Rupp was accused of misusing TUE's for 2011 and some years earlier. I could swear that it was published that he had more recent TUE's than 2009. And no mention of thyroid drugs?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/06/03/reports-allege-doping-violations-by-u-s-track-star-galen-rupp-and-top-coach-alberto-salazar/

As noted in this thread and in our article, Alberto Salazar said Rupp had 2 TUEs from 2010 onward. They are not in the data released. That mean either a) Fancy Bears does not have access too or did not release all the data or b) Alberto misspoke.

ThisIsFutile wrote:

I'd be interested to hear Epstein's take on all this. I wonder if he would at all regret what he published.

I don't think most of this contradicts anything Epstein alleged.

Most of Epstein's allegations were not on the TUE system. For example, an athlete could take testoboost and it doesn't require a TUE. Athletes when drug tested can declare all the supplements they are on. Looks like the hackers don't have access to that data or are not releasing it.

What we've learned is the release of TUE data doesn't show you anything. It's interesting, and that's mostly it.

Only on LetsRun is mostly meaningless data both proof that someone is clean and further evidence that they are dirty (the absence of evidence is evidence crowd).

wejo wrote:

Most of Epstein's allegations were not on the TUE system. For example, an athlete could take testoboost and it doesn't require a TUE. Athletes when drug tested can declare all the supplements they are on. Looks like the hackers don't have access to that data or are not releasing it.

wejo, you're 100% right. What I mean is that Epstein's piece was pretty explosive, and while he wasn't personally alleging much, he was reporting what other big T&F names were alleging, and true or false, that's a big story. It's just that while I understand it's impossible to prove innocence, the case against the NOP hasn't picked up any steam in any way since the initial story, and I feel like it's looking more and more like alleged improper Cytomel use is still the aspect of the story that might have any merit at all (personal opinion, ya I know, I'm going to get hammered for this). I'm just wondering if Epstein would have been interested in publishing his piece if the main takeaway was reporting on the fractured and untrusting relationships within T&F, or if he was really exposing true doping abuses. I hope that clears up my statement just a tiny bit?

TUEs are only obtained when someone a test results covered. If you can do the same test yourself, like NOP does, then you know how to stay in the gray area, and out of harms way.

ThisIsFutile wrote:

... the case against the NOP hasn't picked up any steam in any way since the initial story,...

You are ignoring that Dr Brown refuses to chat with the USADA about his method of "treating" athletes who see him. He certainly has something to hide.