Greatness IS ONLY measured in the Olympics. Who cares about longevity? It's about winning. Is Geb considered greater than Tergat? Is Michael Johnson considered greater than Ato Boldon? etc. etc. etc.
You need to correct yourself.
Greatness IS ONLY measured in the Olympics. Who cares about longevity? It's about winning. Is Geb considered greater than Tergat? Is Michael Johnson considered greater than Ato Boldon? etc. etc. etc.
You need to correct yourself.
[quote]jTjg wrote:
Greatness IS ONLY measured in the Olympics. Who cares about longevity? It's about winning. Is Geb considered greater than Tergat? Is Michael Johnson considered greater than Ato Boldon? etc. etc. etc.
You need to correct yourself.[/quote
So Peter Rono is a greater miler than Ryun, Ovett, Bayi and Cram?
I agree with all the posts about Rudisha being the greatest of all time, but it is still fishy that Wilson Kipketer didn't get to run for either Denmark or Kenya in the 1996 Olympics. Meanwhile, the 1996 800m Men's Gold went to a Scandanavian country. Yes, he probably could have run for Kenya, but we don't know the full back-story there. He was robbed.
Was Peter Rono a multiple Olympic Gold medalist like those I mentioned?
Stick to the logic.
Deanouk wrote:
...
If both Coe and Kipketer had been in that London final, and drafted off Rudisha, it would have been very close down that last home straight. Certainly both Kip and Coe would have beaten Amos.
....
After making an effort to equate Coe with Rudisha, you then say that had Coe been lucky enough to have Rudisha drag him around the track, he might have run faster. The statement quoted above is actually a testimony to the fact that Rudisha is greater than either of the other two athletes.
FYI, it's not certain, at all, that Kip OR Coe would've beaten Amos. Kip, probably. Coe? Maybe so, maybe not.
jTjg wrote:
Was Peter Rono a multiple Olympic Gold medalist like those I mentioned?
Stick to the logic.
You said, "Greatness is ONLY measured in the Olympics".
So you are not sticking to the logic, fool.
Your quote means that only Olympic results matter, nothing else. That is what, "ONLY" means. Therefore Rono won an Olympic gold at 1500m. Ovett, Ryun, Bayi and Cram did not. Therefore, based on your criteria, Peter Rono is a greater 1500m runner than any of them!
It seems ridiculous to make a big deal of Amos running 1:41.73 in a non-paced race. My angle is that Rudisha ran in a non-paced race .......but surely Amos and the others benefited from the ultimate pacemaker (ie someone who goes for more than just first 450 or 500 or 550)........
RUMAN wrote:
1. Rudisha
2. Kipketer
3. Coe
4. Snell
5. Cruz
Cruz is above Coe on any sort of 800m ranking list.
JRinaldi wrote:
Could Coe 81 or Kipketer 97 have beaten Rudisha 12 when he ran 1:40.91 if they sat on him all the way...maybe.
Could Coe or Kipketer done so leading all the way in an Olympic Final - no way.
Rudisha's run is the greatest performance (not just time) over 800m ever.
What could Rudisha have run if he's drafted the other 2 !
Pyscholigically I think he suits front running bet but physically he would be close to breaking 1:40 and is the great all time 800m runner
Brazilian power wrote:
RUMAN wrote:1. Rudisha
2. Kipketer
3. Coe
4. Snell
5. Cruz
Cruz is above Coe on any sort of 800m ranking list.
No, Cruz had 2 great years, was world ranked No. 1 twice. Coe was No.1 four times and No.2 twice. Coe was ranked in the top 10 for 10 years, Cruz in only 4 years. Coe has a much higher number of ranking points, 78, to Cruz's 36. Only Kipketer has more, with 84 points also over 10 years. Rudisha is currently on 73, but once 2016's rankings come out he should go to within a point of Kipketer in 2nd place.
Coe broke the WR twice, both indoor and outdoors. Cruz never broke the WR.
Coe was the world record holder for 18 years, longer than anyone else in history.
Coe's 2 best times are marginally faster than Cruz's - 1:41.73 & 1:42.33 to Cruz's 1:41.77 & 1:42.34.
In international and continental championships and competitions Cruz won Olympic gold and silver and a World Champs bronze. He didn't compete in any senior Pan Am games.
Coe had 2 Olympic silvers, a World Cup gold, European gold, silver and bronze and a European indoor gold.
While Cruz's Olympic record over 800 is marginally better, his overall medal haul is inferior to Coe's.
Coe beats Cruz in too many catergories to be below him.
Someone please remove this wacko's dirge from this thread. It undermines some good discussion from most other posters.
calculo wrote:
Statistical Analysis wrote:Banked indoor tracks are as fast as oversized tracks for middle distance eventsno
a banked 200 track is never as fast as a 400 outdoor
"Banked 200m Tracks and Oversized Tracks (+260m) - research conclusion - there is NO statistical difference found between performances on a “Banked 200m Track†(BT) and that of an “Oversized Track†(OT)."
http://www.trackie.com/track-and-field/Articles/cis-indoor-track-conversion-ratios/13027/"Certain track types have advantages over others, which influence a
runner’s race time. For example, it is well known that athletes run faster on banked tracks as opposed to flat tracks. The banked turns help reduce loss of speed when running along the
curve, which clearly aids the athlete during a race."
it is embarrassing to quote such
it is a research project posted by some guy/gal, who if entered uni at 18y, was maybe 20y at time
even moreso, he/she was attempting to get a degree from
"worcester polytechnic institute"
kindly enlighten which
"Ivy League"
is this
worcester polytechnic institute ?
https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-042413-222345/unrestricted/Statistical_Models_for_NCAA_Indoor_Track_and_Field_Data.pdf
P.5 - "The only major similarity between the NCAA and GLMM conversion
standards was the banked to oversized track conversion, which says there is no difference between these two track types."
i had to laugh when the guy/gal quoted taylor series with some newton-raphson thrown in !!!
P.48 suggests that the conversion for a men's 800m on a 200m banked track to an oversized flat one is x 0.9993
no
guy/gal is ~ 20y, attending college i never heard of when
IVY LEAGUE
mentioned
Meaning Kipketer's 1:42.67 would be 1:42.60 on a flat oversized track
is this a joke ???
he already had
1'41.83 PB
with proper timing & splits
he looked to have passed 200 in
22.6 !!!!!
& he got little drafting early on at 200m as pacer too wide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xy20mwx09Uif he'd got
~ 24.5
he wouda been looking at
1'40-low/mid !!!
if he had ~ 1'40-low/mid coming into '97, how on earth was he only in
1'42.60 shape in paris ???
when he was actually trying his hardest to smash times ?!
As impressive as it was, Kipketer's indoor WR is not anywhere near as comparable as Rudisha's Olympic WR
no
Kip was in
outdoor shape of '96 of
~ 1'40-low/midt
his '97 paris 1'42.67i wouda been little more than this as he targeted it
~ 1'40-low/mid outdoors
=
1'42.67 solo indoors after very hard rounds including 1'43.96 indoor WR !!!
moran
high moran
calculo wrote:
Kip says here he was in best race of his life in paris !!!
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1997/mar/11/kipketer-sets-sights-on-800-outdoor-mark-his/he only managed
1'42.67
how on earth is that worth same as rieti '96 when running
1'41.83 !!
off
22-high !!!
What are you on about?
Kipketer's 200 split in Rieti 96 was 24.0. The fastest 200 split he ever ran was in Zurich 97 when he went through in 23.1. He never went through in 22 high in any race. Are you getting your lines and markers mixed up again?
Kip-keter wrote:
Wilson Kipketer is the greatest 800m runner in history. Better than Coe & Rudisha. Could not be touched in his prime. 96/97 kipketer would have won London 2012.
Discuss.
Is this a serious question?
That Rieti track has 6 lanes calculo, so is therefore not a proper track and offers unreliable times, at your own insistence.
calculo wrote:
last 3 posters are very likely same guy
same guy who posted beyond belief here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xy20mwx09Uit wasn't impressive then, least now so when proper analysis shows Kip looks to have gone thru 200 in
~ 22-high !!!!
moran
moran-high !!!!
calculo is the most incoherent babbling fool on letsrun
this is a high achievement
anti moran wrote:
calculo is the most incoherent babbling fool on letsrun
this is a high achievement
They were all great, no doubt, and hard to choose between them. Also hard to compare different eras.
The argument for Coe in my mind is that he was the first guy to run a 1:42 and the first guy to run a 1:41, unless you don't believe the 1:41 is legit.
The argument for Rudisha in my mind is that he's the only guy (Mutola did it) to win the Worlds and the Olympics in the 800. Of course, the Worlds were not available to Snell.
The argument for Kipketer in my mind is how he dominated in non-Olympic years and in 1996 when he was not able to participate in the Olympics.
I'm going with Rudisha but you can make an excellent case (and many on this board have) for any of the top 5 (Snell, Coe, Cruz, Kipketer, Rudisha) as the top 1. Ryun is a great "what if" but so are Obea Moore, Wade Bell, and many others.
By the way, thanks to Calculo for that clip of Ryun in the 4 x 4! If anyone can find the full 1972 Olympic Trials 800m (I've seen bits and pieces in black and white and in color) please lead us to it.
What do you mean, "unless you don't believe Coe's 1:41 is legit?"
Of course it is legit. It happened. It was ratified. There is video footage to prove it.
The only person who questions it is Calculo/ Ventolin and all his other incarnations.
He has been asked on many occasions to provide an impartial (not him) link, quote or anything from someone who has questioned the distance of the track. He has yet to provide any evidence to back it up.
Everyone know there was a problem with the official timing, but both photo cells provided 1:41.73, the official timekeepers got 1:41.6, 1:41.6 and 1:41.7.
Anyone capable of using a stopwatch can time it using video footage and will get between 1:41.4 - 1:41.8.
There is no question about the distance. There is no doubt he broke his own WR and there is no doubt he ran a 1:41.