greatest ever at 800m

Very interesting to hear Coe's thoughts. Nice input.

It must be said that dispite Amos equalling Coe's best time in 2012, anyone capable of thinking critically about the subject would realise that Coe's performance was superior. Amos had a much better track and a personal pacemaker for the entire 800m.

*despite

I Kick Pandas In The Bollocks wrote:

Any Which Way But Loose wrote:

Not sure if Juantorena might not have been the best.

Remember, they had to run 400 in lanes at that time, making it almost impossible to get a pace from a rabbit.

Watch the 1976 Olympic race.

300 not 400, moran

Is this you?

Significantly, after his performances this year, Rudisha doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. Unlikely to see another WR, but his Olympic run this year was amazing.

I think Rudisha's return from injury is maybe the most incredible thing he's done. A couple of years ago, I think most of us thought he was done. But he's inched his way back to the top.

144.3 by Snell on grass is hard to beat even by Rudisha

The letter why wrote:

Significantly, after his performances this year, Rudisha doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. Unlikely to see another WR, but his Olympic run this year was amazing.

I think Rudisha's return from injury is maybe the most incredible thing he's done. A couple of years ago, I think most of us thought he was done. But he's inched his way back to the top.

I agree, if Kipketer didn't impede him on the second lap around 450m then he would have broken 1:42 in my opinion.

That grass track was fast. It was manicured and rolled. Rudisha could surpass any 800m ever run, including Snell's world record on grass.

No man, living or dead, could match Rudisha's front run world record in an Olympic final that he ran in London 2012.

damianshirley1500@hotmail.com wrote:

144.3 by Snell on grass is hard to beat even by Rudisha

I've read several experts suggest that a well rolled and kept grass track is faster than cinders and pretty close to first generation synthetic. There was a video with footage of Snell saying such after his 62 WR.

I would say that on synthetic tracks of the 70's his time might have been 1.0 sec faster (1:43.3), making it marginally better run than Juantorena's.

What also has to be remembered is that it was hand timed, so more likely 1:44.4/1:44.5 with FAT. I think it's also worth noting that his time for 880yds was given as 1:45.1. This meant he covered the 4.67m difference in 0.8secs, which is 17.1 pace for 100m!

He was either dying horribly in the last few strides, or else the timing was perhaps a bit out. I've seen the race and it's not as if he stopped before the 880 line or anything.

Luckily for all of you I watched a stacked 800m just the other day. I'm not sure why they were running on grass, must of been for historic reasons or something. Anyway It was one hell of a race. Rudisha brought it thru 400 at 50.2 just a couple strides in front of Snell, Kipketer, Coe, and Amos. On the back straight Kipketer makes a move and him and Rudisha end up running side by side around the final turn; they slowly began to die and it looks like Snell is going to snag the win. But then out of no where some pasty white dude wearing a hat (Dave Wottle) comes out of no where to take the win. It was truly spectacular, wish more people were their to see it.

Kenyan great wrote:

That grass track was fast. It was manicured and rolled. Rudisha could surpass any 800m ever run, including Snell's world record on grass.

No man, living or dead, could match Rudisha's front run world record in an Olympic final that he ran in London 2012.

I took up mid-distance running as a hobby whilst at University, interestingly my first ever race over 800m was on grass 2:02/3, a week later I ran 1:56 flat on a mondo track. (I could do about 51s for 400m in high school). Now I think my week to week improvement was about 2.5s, the rest was the grass, identical weather conditions.

Dave(GOAT)Wottle wrote:

Luckily for all of you I watched a stacked 800m just the other day. I'm not sure why they were running on grass, must of been for historic reasons or something. Anyway It was one hell of a race. Rudisha brought it thru 400 at 50.2 just a couple strides in front of Snell, Kipketer, Coe, and Amos. On the back straight Kipketer makes a move and him and Rudisha end up running side by side around the final turn; they slowly began to die and it looks like Snell is going to snag the win. But then out of no where some pasty white dude wearing a hat (Dave Wottle) comes out of no where to take the win. It was truly spectacular, wish more people were their to see it.

What! No Cruz.

A new cinders track was only worth 0.5 per lap, people like to make more of it then there is, the cinders track I ran on was quicker then grass. I've walked on Lancaster park and it was very nice, if only there was somewhere in the world that you could run 10 miles on a surface like that. I think that the turf had probably improved with time. However, I think that the 1.5% rule would actually be a fair conversion, it definitely isn't as quick as a mondo track a high 1:42 would be fair. Snell was very polite and diplomatic and always played down his achievements.

So the grass track you ran on was prepared for weeks out knowing you'd be going for the world record?

This grass track was prepared like center court at Wimbledon, the one you ran on was likely not.

I suspect you've only ever run on a grass track once. I've run on plenty, and even the same track can vary day in day out. Catch it when it's just being mowed, rolled, and unwatered for a few days and it's very quick. The one Snell ran on was pristine. Groundskeepers in cricket playing countries can produce and kind of grass surface you desire given the time.

Having said that, Snell, with two Olympic golds and a world record at 800m, certainly puts himself in the race for best 800m runner of all time. However, Rudisha is the best. That 800m that Rudisha ran at the 2012 Olympics was the greatest ever 800m. I'm sure Snell would agree too. No one could replicate that performance in an Olympic final, with rounds and massive pressure. Then, to front run the entire race and break the world record! No one could match it.

No, I raced many times on grass over 100m, 200m, 400m, 1500m and 3000m. What the roller did was iron-out any bumps, potholes and divots underfoot to minimize injury. I have actually been across the park's surface, like I said it is quite nice, a bit bumpy, (the drainage was a modern add in) but not anywhere near as good as racing on the surface of London's Olympic Stadium. I found that say a session of 8 x 200m would be done in 26-27 on a mondo track but on a grass track would be 28-29 and on soccer fields would be 30-31 with the same intensity.

Rudisha is impressive, Kipketer always looked smoother to me, but Rudisha's 2 golds are tough to match. Cruz has been totally forgotten about which is a bit disappointing.

I like Coe,but I'm an older guy. ;p

It's hard for me to watch the London 2012 final here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKEOjWEzVGs

... and not come away thinking 'the great man' (as one of the announcers calls Rudisha) is not the best of all time. Rudisha ran 1:40:91 in that race, a new world record—opening with a 49.28, and coming home in 51:63.

• He led that race from gun to finish.

• His stride never broke. His shoulders never came up. His motion remain unchanged. Pure elegance and command. And all of that while the rest of the field did their best Emil Zatopek (another of my track idols) form impressions... struggling to reach the line.

And, speaking of the field...

— Here are some superlative bits about that race from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rudisha

"Rudisha's competitors all ran exceptional times. Sports Illustrated's David Epstein reported that the race "is best told, perhaps, in 16 letters: WR, NR, PB, PB, PB, NR, SB, PB." The silver medallist, Amos, had to be carried from the track on a stretcher after setting the world junior record and make him only the fifth man in history to run under 1:42, something Rudisha has now done seven times. "With Rudisha breaking 1:41, two men under 1:42, five under 1:43 and all eight under 1:44," noted the IAAF, "it was the greatest depth 800m race in history." Every competitor ran the fastest time in history for their placing. It was the first time in international 800m history where every competitor ran either a personal or season's best. The time set by the eighth-placed Andrew Osagie, a personal best of 1:43.77, would have won gold at the three preceding Olympic games in Beijing, Athens and Sydney."

Now, having said all that, I looked for decent video of Wilson Kipketer's PR 1:41:11 race at Cologne in 1997. I couldn't find a good clip. However, some other posters mentioned his indoor WR of 1:42:67. Here's a clip of that race, run on what I swear looks to be the track with the tightest turns I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp-IDEo4eh8

Kipketer's WR there stands today. It was as dominant a performance as Rudisha's was in London 15 years later outdoors.

So far as greatest ever, I land with Rudisha. As with all these discussions though, a Kipketer vs. Rudisha race outdoors would be for the ages. (With Rudisha's height, I think Kipketer carries the day indoors in a head-to-head.)

Banked indoor tracks are as fast as oversized tracks for middle distance events.

"Banked 200m Tracks and Oversized Tracks (+260m) - research conclusion - there is NO statistical difference found between performances on a “Banked 200m Track” (BT) and that of an “Oversized Track” (OT)."

http://www.trackie.com/track-and-field/Articles/cis-indoor-track-conversion-ratios/13027/

"Certain track types have advantages over others, which influence a

runner’s race time. For example, it is well known that athletes run faster on banked tracks as opposed to flat tracks. The banked turns help reduce loss of speed when running along the

curve, which clearly aids the athlete during a race."

https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-042413-222345/unrestricted/Statistical_Models_for_NCAA_Indoor_Track_and_Field_Data.pdf

P.5 - "The only major similarity between the NCAA and GLMM conversion

standards was the banked to oversized track conversion, which says there is no difference between these two track types."

P.48 suggests that the conversion for a men's 800m on a 200m banked track to an oversized flat one is x 0.9993.

Meaning Kipketer's 1:42.67 would be 1:42.60 on a flat oversized track.

As impressive as it was, Kipketer's indoor WR is not anywhere near as comparable as Rudisha's Olympic WR.

DAVID WOTTLE!!!!!!

It easy to make an argument for both Kipketer and Rudisha. I think though Kipketer was the most complete 800m runner ever. He could win in any way really. From right at the back such as Gothenburg WC 95, leading all the way as he did in the Athens WC 97 or closing someone down in the last 100m and diving over the line as in Seville WC 99. His dominance in 97 and 99 Golden League series was something to behold. At his peak in 97 I doubt anyone before or after then would have beaten him. Has to be realised he ended up taking 6 tenths off a record that had stood for 16 years. Unlucky not to run Olympics in 96 and injured in Sydney 2000 but still getting silver and past his best by Athens 04 but still getting a bronze. I dont think I have ever seen a smoother, more elegant, more spectacular 800m runner than Kipketer.