The Russians Have Hacked WADA: Leaked Drug Tests/TUEs - Real or Not?

bigtool05 wrote:

If you think the TUE system is even within an order of magnitude as severe as the Russian doping system...then I just don't know what to say to you. It's like trying to argue with a conspiracy theorist that 9/11 wasn't an inside job orchestrated by the illuminati. Facts don't matter, logic doesn't matter, they just want to believe what they believe.

TUE on it's own doesn't have to be as big as Russian doping. When you add it to other concerns, gray area, history of American sprinters being cheats, number of ex dopers and likely dopers on sprint teams, likely cover-ups for british superstars past and present, then yes, maybe other countries are as dirty as Russia where medal contenders are concerned.

A person who has to dissect this down to it's parts and deny deny deny is worse than the kind of people who think that 9/11 was an inside job.

The real reason TUEs seem out of control is that you apparently need a TUE for pretty much anything including lots of stuff that is not a ped (OxyC?)

when someone finds a smoking gun here, or even a rusty dysfunctional cap gun, get back to me.

Until then ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ITF testing policy maker wrote:

Large-scale ping-pong wrote:

Tennis Forum completely outed Serena as a TUE cheat.

http://fancybear.net/docs/Serena%20Williams/339141436.pdf

Given that tennis famously only seems to test the losers in the KO, she could have been using it much prior to June 5.

This is obviously false somehow, because if it weren't the media would be all over it! Can't get bigger than a retroactive TUE for a PED spanning a GrandSlam final.

Oh wait, they're too busy whining about privacy issues to care. Media have their priorities. Oh well.

fdsg4835 wrote:

The real reason TUEs seem out of control is that you apparently need a TUE for pretty much anything including lots of stuff that is not a ped (OxyC?)

when someone finds a smoking gun here, or even a rusty dysfunctional cap gun, get back to me.

Until then ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Stay alseep, Frued's public relations soldier.

What WebMD says about ADHD:

"Treatment often includes taking medication and getting therapy. Because some of these drugs can be stimulating, some teens and adults who don’t have the disorder use them to boost their focus.

“Doctors do see patients who are seeking habit-forming medications and who claim to have ADHD symptoms in order to get a prescription,” Alsakaf says. “But that’s generally not the case.”"

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/features/adhd-critics#2

Found on the net wrote:

What WebMD says about ADHD:

"Treatment often includes taking medication and getting therapy. Because some of these drugs can be stimulating, some teens and adults who don’t have the disorder use them to boost their focus.

“Doctors do see patients who are seeking habit-forming medications and who claim to have ADHD symptoms in order to get a prescription,” Alsakaf says. “But that’s generally not the case.”"

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/features/adhd-critics#2

Anecdotally, as someone who works at a university, almost anyone can get a diagnosis if they want it bad enough (you can also shop for a convenient doctor).

Back in grad school 20 years ago, a female colleague was tutoring some girl with some sort of "special need", and her comment was "It means she has a rich daddy." Currently I'm supervising a PhD student with nebulous "psychological" difficulties according to the health center (which means he gets to turn in projects late).

But most relevantly, back in grad school, the grad coordinator was so bemused about the speech therapy clinic (for foreigners mostly) that he sent me there, and guess what, they found that had a horrible stutter, would never be understandable teaching in the classroom, etc. --- but they could fix it for a fee! (I did have speech therapy from grades 3-5, but have done just fine since, except sometimes when I try to speak a foreign language like Spanish).

Juan Pablo wrote:

These guys are going after the Americans, which means that we'll finally learn what are Rupp's TUE's. Oh what a wonderful day that will be.

Man, what sad little life you must lead...

fdsg4835 wrote:

The real reason TUEs seem out of control is that you apparently need a TUE for pretty much anything including lots of stuff that is not a ped (OxyC?)

Clearly you should need a TUE for masking agents too.

For Narcotics, the WADA ban is more for the athlete's health, as addiction to painkillers is quite common (and who knows, if they didn't try to prevent their abuse, some class action lawsuit might hit them some years from now).

Bad Wigins wrote:

bitcoin wrote:

Obviously this is an anti-american thing, but they are taking bitcoin donations so someone should offer them money to give up the British data as well. I'm sure a lot of people here would pay to see Mo's report.

A single bitcoin is worth hundreds of dollars, I'm not going to give them that much money

Can you cut a bitcoin into 8 pieces like an old Spanish coin? You should be able to because that's the origin of the term "bit" I think.

You're thinking of a byte, which is 8 bits.

Oh, and if you think a bitcoin is really worth hundreds of dollars outside of the ether, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.

A person who has to use the term "likely" twice, and "gray area", and "other concerns", and then goes on to accuse the other person of "dissect(ing) this down to it's parts", might want to look in the mirror.

I said maybe other countries are as dirty as Russia. This means, with all these factors, It's not really on the scale of claiming 9-11 was an inside job, which does seem like pretty bizarre speculation.

Why so rabid about shutting down understandable speculation? Can't you be rational and say that you understand why some people lean towards concluding that countries other than Russia are very dirty? No, I don't think you can.

This whole drug fiasco is total BS.

Total BS wrote:

This whole drug fiasco is total BS.

The athlete's public relations machinery isn't working. It's okay to use drugs is all they keep repeating. (See the example quoted above.)

Big wrote:

I said maybe other countries are as dirty as Russia. This means, with all these factors, It's not really on the scale of claiming 9-11 was an inside job, which does seem like pretty bizarre speculation.

Why so rabid about shutting down understandable speculation? Can't you be rational and say that you understand why some people lean towards concluding that countries other than Russia are very dirty? No, I don't think you can.

Sure I can. Or at least I can say that all countries have athletes that "dope". But I doubt any large country has what amounts to a government run doping system.

And I'm just questioning your use of so many qualifiers to bolster your rabid speculation.

Here is an (old) article that is very timely:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2009/01/doping_deficit_disorder.html

According to that article, there are 100s of TUE in MLB for ADHD meds.

Great intro line to sum it up.

Indeed, all too easy to find such a doctor. The fact that 90%+ or whatever of doctors are legit doesn't mean that those with means won't find the small percentage that have "advanced" or "enlightened" views on the subject. As one poster said, you (or your parents) can often effectively buy a TUE.

Some don't see this nonuniformity as a "problem", but as a feature to be exploited.

Another money paragraph.

The crucial factor, as Manfred notes, is that pro baseball players have "far better access to medical care." Charitably, you could say this means that ADHD is underdiagnosed in children and adults and that if the rest of us had access to as many doctors as pro baseball players have, they'd discover our hidden ADHD. Uncharitably, you could say that ADHD is accurately diagnosed in adults and overdiagnosed in children so we can put them on Ritalin. And if the rest of us had access to as many doctors as pro baseball players have, we could shop around, as they do, until more of us found a doctor willing to give the diagnosis and write a prescription for attention-enhancing drugs.

I'd like to see a correlation chart of TUE percentage in elite athletes, compared to living standards in each country.

Look at the context in Simone Biles case. She made nationals 2012. Needed TUE 2012. She was homeschooled roughly the same time, I assume to be able to train and compete as an elite. I also assume the ADHD diagnosis and treatment occurred well before her rise. Her parents and coaches did the right things to dot the i's and cross the t's. This is exactly what a TUE is for.

Here's a good example of how the TUE process can be dodgy (and there's not even clear intent in this case).http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/cas-2014a3751-x-vs-wada.htmlCAS case 2014/3751.

Read the whole decision here (12MB PDF):

The Dr. Serrano does not exude professionalism. As noted in the THASP first comment:

In 2.13ff of the decision, you find out that only when the ITF got involved was an endocrinologist consulted. Said Dr. Mishra (Arizona) gave a short opinion saying DHEA was OK, and then it was back to Serrano (2.16) with changes to the regime.

Finally WADA intervened (2.17) and said the "documentation" was bogus, and DHEA was unneeded.

Unphased, the Athlete met up with Dr. Larrimer (Ohio), who along with the dubious Serrano submitted the TUE paperwork anew (Mishra no longer in the loop). ITF strangely accepted the DHEA, but not the hydrocortisone (HC) at first, but the permission for HC came within a week (2.22ff).

Three days later, WADA reversed the bogus ITF TUE for DHEA, and reduced the one for HC.

Both sides had problems finding a CAS arbitrator willing to serve, and in fact it ended up with a sole arbitrator appointed by the Athlete(!).

In 6.3, the crux of the matter is met: that the Athlete has something beyond adrenal difficulties, but they disagree on what this is. WADA claims it is likely a misdiagnosis (6.18 claims that the Athlete is still lacking a proper diagnosis), though the CAS arbitrator guesses the Athlete didn't seek out dodgy doctors intentionally.

Truly in the best of hands!