Centro probably would have been #1 in the world this year anyway but with Makhloufi finishing 2nd in Brussels in not that fast a time, Centro should be #1. He's only got the 19th fastest time but won the Olympics and World Indoors and was undefeated at 1500/mile this year except for a 9th place at the Portland meet which was more of a workout.
Centro will be #1 despite not running a mile or 1500 all year in Europe. Has that ever happened before? Maybe with Ryun?
Its is pretty hard to be ranked #1 when the Olympics is your one single international competition of the year.
They don't factor indoor in these rankings.
And having only the 19th fastest doesn't help the argument.
Kiprop has the fastest time in the world in the 1500.
He won the Prefontaine mile
He won the Bislett mile
He won Birmingham
He won Doha
He has losses in other races but I think you should get more credit for losing a race than for not showing up to race.
Kiprop - #1 this year
I don't think Centro will be #1. Probably 3rd or 4th. He needed some wins in Europe for that #1 ranking. You can get a #1 with just the Oly victory, but not when you're only 19th fastest.
kvothe wrote:
I don't think Centro will be #1. Probably 3rd or 4th. He needed some wins in Europe for that #1 ranking. You can get a #1 with just the Oly victory, but not when you're only 19th fastest.
Wouldn't be the first time it happened. In 2007 it went to Daniel Komen based on one race essentially.
No- the Rio win was impressive but so tactical and slow. He's got to race more against international competition.
Sleepy wrote:
No- the Rio win was impressive but so tactical and slow. He's got to race more against international competition.
...and perform well when the pace is hot. Even Farah is faster then him at 1500. I don't think Centro has ever beaten the 5k/10k specialist at 1500.
it could happen wrote:
kvothe wrote:I don't think Centro will be #1. Probably 3rd or 4th. He needed some wins in Europe for that #1 ranking. You can get a #1 with just the Oly victory, but not when you're only 19th fastest.
Wouldn't be the first time it happened. In 2007 it went to Daniel Komen based on one race essentially.
I don't understand your point.
Komen didn't win the World Championship in 2007, Lagat did.
Komen didn't make it to the finals.
And Komen didn't have the fastest time in the world that year, Alan Webb did.
Komen only had the 8th fastest time.
(Lagat had the 18th fastest time)
Komen won 4 major international Diamond League type races.
So, with Lagat winning the championship but not running a fast time and Webb running fast but only winning one big competition in Paris, they gave #1 to Komen for his consistency over the season.
If Lagat was World Champion in 2007 with a 3:34 winning time and a 3:33 season best and didn't get ranked #1, I don't know how Centro gets ranked #1 this year.
wejo wrote:
Centro probably would have been #1 in the world this year anyway but with Makhloufi finishing 2nd in Brussels in not that fast a time, Centro should be #1. He's only got the 19th fastest time but won the Olympics and World Indoors and was undefeated at 1500/mile this year except for a 9th place at the Portland meet which was more of a workout.
Centro will be #1 despite not running a mile or 1500 all year in Europe. Has that ever happened before? Maybe with Ryun?
As glad as I was to see Centrowitz win the Olympic title, I doubt he will be ranked World Number 1. The T&FN rankings are based on a series of races over an entire season, and don't historically speaking, put too much emphasis on an Olympic win, even though everyone knows it's the most important race to win.
In 80, Coe ran (and won), just 2 international 1500 races, winning the Olympic gold and then the 2nd most important race, the Zurich 1500, only 0.13 outside the then WR. Both were convincing victories. But he was only ranked No.2 to Ovett.
In 84 he again won the 2 most important races of the year, the Olympic title and the Zurich race, which were also the 2nd and 3rd fastest times of the year.
But he came 2nd in one relatively unimportant race, and was ranked no 2, to Aouita, who put together a consistent and unbeaten season of a lot more international races.
I think this shows that 2 or 3 races against the best in the world just isn't enough to guarantee the No. 1 ranking.
There is not a good history of the Olympic 1500m champ getting the #1 ranking.
1980 Coe won, #1 was Ovett
1984 Coe won, #1 was Aouita
1988 Peter Rono won, #1 was Steve Cram
1992 Fermin Caco won, #1 was Morceli
1996 Morceli won and was ranked #1 (El G was a close 2nd)
2000 Ngeny won, #1 was El G
2004 El G won, #1 was Lagat
2008 Ramzi DDed gave Kiprop the win, #1 was Haron Keitany
2012 Makhloufi won, #1 was Kiplagat
2016 Centro won, #1 will be ...?
Since 1980 Morceli in 1996 is the only one to win the Olympic 1500 and be ranked #1 in the world that year.
But El G still had the fastest time in the world in 1996.
With that history why would we think that Centro's single race would earn him a #1 season ranking?
Total joke. Centro is not number 1 in any respect. His Olympic win is a sham.
He is #1 by virtue of his Olympic Gold. That's the only race that matters. Time is meaningless. Hundreds of competitors world wide were training for that one ace, and he's the man that won it.
World Number One by the only standard that matters.
No way in hell Centro gets the number one ranking. He had one race this year that even puts him in the top 10. Because it was the olympic gold he should probably be top 10. But as the 19th fastest 1500m runner this year, he should not even be in the top 5.
The rankings aren't just hey its an olympic year so the winner is number 1. We already have a thing for that, its called the olympics! The rankings are entirely separate. Centro was the best in the world for a single day. The rankings are about being the best in the world for the year.
Star wrote:
... I don't know how Centro gets ranked #1 this year.
He doesn't. His running resume is soft for 2016. Winning Olympic Gold does not a full year resume make.
On the 13th, next Tuesday, Mike Brannigan will run an Olympic (Paralympic) 1500m final, and he is likely to better Centro's Olympic winning time by 10 seconds. Mike is not even 20 years old yet.
Centro needs to pick up the racing pace in 2017 and place better on the European circuit than he has so far to date.
wejo wrote:
Centro probably would have been #1 in the world this year anyway but with Makhloufi finishing 2nd in Brussels in not that fast a time, Centro should be #1. He's only got the 19th fastest time but won the Olympics and World Indoors and was undefeated at 1500/mile this year except for a 9th place at the Portland meet which was more of a workout.
Centro will be #1 despite not running a mile or 1500 all year in Europe. Has that ever happened before? Maybe with Ryun?
Wejo, Centro was second at the Fifth Avenue Mile. Perhaps that doesn't count much or at all in Track & Field News' rankings as it was a road mile.
wejo wrote:
Centro probably would have been #1 in the world this year anyway but with Makhloufi finishing 2nd in Brussels in not that fast a time, Centro should be #1.
? Makhloufi finished 4th in Brussels.
1 KEN CHERUIYOT, Timothy 3:31.34 PB 204
2 MAR IGUIDER, Abdelaati 3:31.40 SB 213
3 KEN KIPROP, Asbel 3:31.87 421
4 ALG MAKHLOUFI, Taoufik 3:32.21 145
5 NOR INGEBRIGTSEN, Filip 3:32.43 PB 48
6 KEN BIWOTT, Robert 3:33.05 SB 145
7 KEN KIBET, Vincent 3:33.56 SB 310
8 KEN BIRGEN, Bethwell 3:34.03 48
9 USA BLANKENSHIP, Ben 3:34.26 PB
10 KEN MANANGOI, Elijah Motonei 3:34.53 282
11 AUS GREGSON, Ryan 3:34.65 77
12 KEN NGETICH, Hillary Cheruiyot 3:35.31
13 KEN CHEBOI, Collins 3:35.74 SB
14 BEL DEBJANI, Ismael 3:36.23
15 BEL HANNES, Pieter-Jan 3:36.90
16 GBR GRICE, Charlie 3:38.48 111
17 USA ANDREWS, Robby 3:46.63
KEN KIPTOO, Elijah Kipchirchir DNF
KEN ROTICH, Andrew Kiptoo DNF
Deanouk wrote:
As glad as I was to see Centrowitz win the Olympic title, I doubt he will be ranked World Number 1. The T&FN rankings are based on a series of races over an entire season, and don't historically speaking, put too much emphasis on an Olympic win, even though everyone knows it's the most important race to win.
In 80, Coe ran (and won), just 2 international 1500 races, winning the Olympic gold and then the 2nd most important race, the Zurich 1500, only 0.13 outside the then WR. Both were convincing victories. But he was only ranked No.2 to Ovett.
In 84 he again won the 2 most important races of the year, the Olympic title and the Zurich race, which were also the 2nd and 3rd fastest times of the year.
But he came 2nd in one relatively unimportant race, and was ranked no 2, to Aouita, who put together a consistent and unbeaten season of a lot more international races.
I think this shows that 2 or 3 races against the best in the world just isn't enough to guarantee the No. 1 ranking.
Not quite right, while it is true that T&FN rankings are based on an entire season's results, there is a definite pecking order of criteria: "The Rankings are based on these 3 criteria, in descending order of importance: 1. Honors Won; 2. Head-To-Head records with other athletes; 3. Sequence Of Marks."
Centro won the biggest meet of the year, so he has #1. He didn't really race any Diamond League so he didn't lose to anybody like Makhloufi, Kiprop, Iguider, etc., so head to head is moot. #3, sequence of marks rarely comes into play in the rankings. Somebody would have to set a world record and beat Centro multiple times to trump the Olympic Gold so I think Centro will get #1 by default.
In Coes's case I think in 1980 he has seen as primarily an 800 runner, so despite winning two big 1500 races, he didn't have a season's results at 1500m, unlike Ovett. In 1984, as you say, Aouita's season's record trumped Coe's Olympic win.
This year nobody has really dominated outside the Olympics, so it would be pretty hard to overturn Centro's Olympic win on season's record.
Star wrote:
Its is pretty hard to be ranked #1 when the Olympics is your one single international competition of the year.
They don't factor indoor in these rankings.
And having only the 19th fastest doesn't help the argument.
Kiprop has the fastest time in the world in the 1500.
He won the Prefontaine mile
He won the Bislett mile
He won Birmingham
He won Doha
He has losses in other races but I think you should get more credit for losing a race than for not showing up to race.
Kiprop - #1 this year
This.
Kiprop won several major races and also put down a fast time.
Centro was "undefeated" against scrub competition and barely ran a time that was world class, let alone world elite.
He ran a 3:50 indoor mile this year.
Take that into account and he is better than 19th fastest 1500m/miler in the world this year, no?
Plus he did break the Oly trials record that had stood for quite some time.
I think the more interesting question is whether Muir's late season surge can get her third in the rankings ahead of Simpson. Muir was only 5th in Stockholm, but won in London, finished 7th in the Olympics behind Simpson, but then rebounded to run the season's leading time in Paris and barely lost to Rowbury in Zurich, handily beating Simpson in that one. So she has the world leader and a 2-1 over Simpson, yet Simpson finished higher in the Olympics.
By winning two Diamond League races I think Muir gets third.
Kipyegon is clearly #1, although she lost form quickly after the Olympics and lost two races.
Dibaba probably #2, although like Centro, she didn't race 1500m at all outside the Olympics so didn't lose to anyone but Kipyegon in the Olympics and ran close to the world record in the mile.
Star wrote:
There is not a good history of the Olympic 1500m champ getting the #1 ranking.
1980 Coe won, #1 was Ovett
1984 Coe won, #1 was Aouita
1988 Peter Rono won, #1 was Steve Cram
1992 Fermin Caco won, #1 was Morceli
1996 Morceli won and was ranked #1 (El G was a close 2nd)
2000 Ngeny won, #1 was El G
2004 El G won, #1 was Lagat
2008 Ramzi DDed gave Kiprop the win, #1 was Haron Keitany
2012 Makhloufi won, #1 was Kiplagat
2016 Centro won, #1 will be ...?
Since 1980 Morceli in 1996 is the only one to win the Olympic 1500 and be ranked #1 in the world that year.
But El G still had the fastest time in the world in 1996.
With that history why would we think that Centro's single race would earn him a #1 season ranking?
Interesting, if you included 1960-1976, the fastest was also the Olympic champ but that has definitely changed.