Not a troll, just wandering what's realistic: 47 year old 5k if train for 6 months

Hey, I am 47 and my PBs were similar to yours (you were a bit better at the longer stuff, but not by much. I ran 1:50s for the 800m)...with that said, except for about 7 years in my 20s i have been running pretty consistently. Nothing crazy, but I get in 30-35 mpw, all year, usually with a hard tempo once a week, and if I focus on a race an interval practice. here are my insights:

-Take it easy building up. Injuries will pop up.

-once fit and with the weight loss (give yourself 8 months), only try to do about 70% of what you "think" you should. if you were to do 6 x 1000m, just do 4, maybe 5....you will be surprised how you actually recover better and it doesn't effect that much fitness.

-tempo, tempo, tempo --a lot--don't do much speed, but get some sold steady states. Your times will drop

- do lots of calf and ankle stretches--every person i know my age has these issues

-I noticed a major decline in speed at age 44...i ran under 16min for 5k every year from 38 until 44 (with about the same training--always between 15:40 and 16)....but the last three years i have lost about 15 seconds a year....i feel the same, but can't crank as fast. I just did 16:52 a couple of days ago. I think i can get down in the 16:30s, but age is getting me...be ready

Unfortunately, your body is going to do you in. Injuries are in your future.

Instead of arguing with us Look up the results of some large 5km races and see how many 47 to 50 year olds run under 18 min.

Advice as well buy a friggin book and start training

Your plans are ambitious and your attitude leads me to merely being a troll getting your jollies responding to comments

Ultrahype wrote:

I agree. I think my performance is almost completely related to weight. If i stay 215 then you are right that it will be a difficult undertaking. However at 180 i believe 20 is a gimmie and at 165 i think it gets interesting as to what the outcome will be.

I agree performances 17 years ago are meaningless but my athleticism in weekly basketball gives me some belief that there is a small window of possibility before 50.

I've ran sub 20 at over 50 after a long time with little or no running and the main problems were finding time for training and injuries.

But you're only giving yourself 6 months to meet your goal?

I expect injuries will be the winner here.

Ultrahype wrote:

6'4 215

A type personality but wife (or injury) would probably prevent complete devotion.

Yeah thanks, i think i will get the extra weight down so less stress on the body.

Then maybe 17 minutes with a downhill course and a tailwind.

Doesn't that stand for arrogant.

You won't get under 18

Ultrahype wrote:

Young prs of 1:50, 3:50, 14:15, 30:00.

Tall and slender but 40lbs over race weight.

No major injuries in life.

Havent run a race in 17 years.

Weekly basketball.

Started training this month and dieting to lose weight, barring injury, is 15:58 realistic or am i way off base and should I be shooting to break 18?

Don't focus on times. Get the weight down, go running regularly, work on aches and pains so you can keep training.

I am 45, I recently lost 20lbs and started running again harder. My son got good and I wanted to run with him. It has taken a year to do this and whilst I am really fit now the strength and lactic sessions have been harder for me to do, meaning I am not super fast.

Running is comfy at 4.00 km pace, I can do 3.20/3.30 for a short race but faster than that needs me to get the lactic sessions under my belt.

If you have good strength, lose some weight and your body doesn't break down much due to the training you could get under 17 minutes for 5km. But be happy if you run under 20 minutes and decide then if you want to work harder to get faster.

Ultrahype wrote:

If im competitive by March then i think i will reassess. If i am running 18 minutes it seems like a lot of work to just get my butt kicked by the local daily runners.

Reassess now. If 18 seems like a lot of work, isn't being competitive even _more_ work? Just to kick the butt of some local "daily" runners...

I don't think you want to race. I don't think you want to run. I think you want to brag: "5K? Pfft. It's not so hard. I didn't run for 20 years, but it only took me 6 months to break 17. These guys who have been doing it for years and run 18, 19, must be something wrong with them."

I say go for it. Two months to lose 30 lbs and get a few miles in; two months to ramp up to 50 mpw; six weeks of speedwork twice a week (12 x 400 @ 1:25, and some fast stuff on the other day); taper; race; kick bag and brag for the rest of your life. You can do this.

Not a troll and i find many of the comments while probably correct that i wont break 18 as motivational. I dont want to brag just want to feel young once last time and having a quality effort after devoting myself to the goal i think will do that. I am really racing time versus people as 18 minutes and winning age group doesnt interest or motivate me but i do have an ego as most people do and would be hard taking an a** whooping by a local jogger or (and i know this sounds bad) a woman. I did get beat one time when i ran a terrible 10k and mary decker slaney ran like a road pr that day lol.

I do alot of tempo fartleks now as it allows me to back off when my body says i may be pushing too hard.

But i chalk that up to that she was on the juice lol.

This is one of the most constructive LRC threads that I've seen in a long time. Lots of people giving well-informed advice. (So why did you have to mess it up by sharing your distaste for being beaten by a woman. Get over it.)

You're getting lots of good advice here that you shouldn't expect to be able to train like you did when you were younger. You seem reluctant to believe this. It has taken me many frustrating injuries to learn (and re-learn) this lesson. I used to love speedwork, low mileage / high intensity, etc. My body responded very well to that. In my late 40s it responds by breaking down.

Repeating some of the highlights:

-- lose weight (I found biking helped a lot; you can burn a lot of calories without the impact)

-- scale back the speed; consistency is far more important

-- pay attention to strength/stretching; it will protect you

-- check your 20-year old ego at the door

I was never as fast as you in my youth. 1:58 800 and ~16:00 5k in college. Returned in 40s after longish hiatus. Lost a lot of weight and regained a lot of fitness. Got to a 17:35 5k at 44, and a sub-60 10 miler at 46. Learned to love long steady mileage, and to forget about intervals. Have lost a lot of time to poor training decisions, including recently losing almost 2 years to knee problems. Currently at 48 struggling to break 20 for 5k. But appreciating so much that I'm able to get out there and do anything at all.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Ultrahype wrote:

6'4 215

A type personality but wife (or injury) would probably prevent complete devotion.

Yeah thanks, i think i will get the extra weight down so less stress on the body.

Then maybe 17 minutes with a downhill course and a tailwind.

Doesn't that stand for arrogant.

You won't get under 18

not only that...

An "A type" that let his wife decide his level of devotion. Sure.

Good luck with your sub16, beta cuck!

Ultrahype wrote:

Not a troll and i find many of the comments while probably correct that i wont break 18 as motivational. I dont want to brag just want to feel young once last time and having a quality effort after devoting myself to the goal i think will do that. I am really racing time versus people as 18 minutes and winning age group doesnt interest or motivate me but i do have an ego as most people do and would be hard taking an a** whooping by a local jogger or (and i know this sounds bad) a woman. I did get beat one time when i ran a terrible 10k and mary decker slaney ran like a road pr that day lol.

I do alot of tempo fartleks now as it allows me to back off when my body says i may be pushing too hard.

You're 50, overweight and haven't run meaningful mileage in years. Why does it matter what you do in 6 months? 6 months is barely enough time to call yourself a runner again. You won't lose enough weight in that time given that you say your body can't handle even medium levels of mileage. While 50-year-olds can still perform well at longer distances, there's usually a much bigger dropoff at the 5k distance. And it takes even 30-year-olds 6 months just to rebuild a running habit worth a damn.

Have you heard of Michael Stember? 2000 Olympian and 3:35 1500m runner. Five years ago - at age 33 - he came out of nowhere on a charity bet to run a sub-18 Thanksgiving 5k. Everyone on LRC thought that was a joke, a gimme.

He ran 19:30.

And 18 minutes for 33 years old is equivalent to just over 20 minutes for a 50-year-old.

You're underestimating what it takes to run an 18-minute 5k. Your brain says it's easy because you once laughed at others running that time. Sure, when you're surrounded by lean, fit high school and college kids running 70 mpw, that time is easy. But you're not that anymore. No way you come close to 18 minutes in 6 months based on everything you've said.

Long slow distance, I mean slow. Get your body used to running.

lots of recovery days where you run shorter distances even more slowly

Stretch a lot to limit injuries.

Once a month try a time trial at 90% of what you assume your max to be. minimal running 3-4 days before and after the time trial.

Other than that no speed work for 6 months.

Then start one session a week using del lingers date pace/gal pace principles.

Aqua running or other x-training of dubious value towards your ultimate goal other than burning calories.

The Stember comment is an eye opener.

As well as the training advice, i guess i just want too much too quickly and even then may not achieve it over a longer period. The comments are helpful to go back to the drawing board with a more sensible plan and realistic possibility. Memories of what it was like clearly arent the same as what it will be like this time around.

Great post for a Sunday morning - already made my day and it's only 10a (okay, I do live a boring existance). It is interesting reading these posts, however, even more interesting is to see the difference in responses from those obviously in their early 40s and those in the 50s. Most of the 40s have not got a clue what the next 10 years of aging is going to do to the body. The difference between 45, 50, 55, and 60 is light years. Injury prevention, and thereby consistancy in training is 100% the key to any semblance of success in running. 30 miles per week is going to be a challenge over the long-haul without becoming injured. Throw speed work into the mix and I will bet my house that 90% of late 40 y.o. get injured. To be honest, the goal should not be to get to a specific time (16, 17, 18 5k) but to start getting your body back in shape so that you can live out the next 29 years at a high level of function. Honestly, go look at the quality of function of those that are 75 and that is you in 25+ years. If that doesn't motivate you, give it up now! If you can manage a decent 5 k, WONDERFUL! Maybe if you are lucky you can actually get under 18. Just go have fun trying to run hard for a 5k and outkicking some scrawny 16 year old with a PR of 20:30 that is dreaming about the olympics. I recommend living life by the words of the great philosopher, Jimmy Buffett: "I'd rather die while I'm living than live when I'm dead". BTW my story - 15 min 5k at 20, sub-5 mile until 36, nothing for 15 years due to achilles injury, 20# weight gain, started back at 51, dropped about 10# fat, and killed myself to run 21:05. Got motivated and then promptly injured. Two years later built up over 6 months and got in 6 weeks at 30 mpw and managed 19:50 at age 54. Couple weeks later I tore my calf jogging 8 min miles and have not run in a year. I'm loving life, my past is getting better by the day, and I'm still dreaming of running 15 again but know it won't happen in this body.

Ultrahype wrote:

Damn that's harsh!!! I gotta believe 20 minutes is a gimmie.

I think you will soon figure out 20 is not happening.

A lot of good advice in this thread.

I'm 56 and decided at 50 to start running again after about a decade off. I am still going, and improving yearly due to the consistency of not getting seriously injured and losing weight. I lost about 30 pounds over 5 years to finally get to what I weighed in my 20s. It gets harder to lose weight each year, so lose it now while you still can.

I roll my legs a lot and that has really helped. If I have a niggle, I roll it and if needed take an extra rest day. I am finally running 40-50mpw, 5 days per week but it took me 3 years to get above 35mpw. Those two rest days make all the difference to my recovery.

My main advice is to have fun. Just be glad you still can run and do it in a way you can enjoy. Nobody gives a @#$! about your times.

I'm going to give - I think - slightly different advice.

At 47 you're at a tough age to be doing this. When I was 45, if I could stay healthy for a few months, I could run just as fast as I did in my mid thirties. From 45-50, though, has been a rapid downhill journey. Whereas in my early forties, I could break 18 after just a few weeks back from a long break (like 3 months off), now, though I run almost every day, I doubt I could break 22 anymore (don't race - too humiliating for me - I'm still in the denial stage of aging). In talking to other men, my experience seems pretty common. Unless you're really unusual, your hormone profile changes dramatically and for the worse starting in your mid to late forties.

So.....

I think your six month window is a good one. Pretty soon, whatever gains you might make from more training will be offset to some extent by aging. So, if you do still want to break 16, you should really go for it - tell your wife you'll make it up to her after 6 months are over or you get injured whatever comes first. Make sure that you do all the things that maybe you could get away with not doing 25 years ago - stretching, core, ice baths, massage - whatever keeps you healthy and on the road.

All that said, although maybe you will break 16, I would keep sub 17 in the back of your mind as an acceptable performance. You do have talent, but you are many years, pounds and miles away from that.

Good Luck

Im definitely in denial about my aging and i'm trying to keep it fun (training has always something i enjoy as it is easy for me to daydream about being in races today i.e. x-country nats) and i know nobody gives a damn about my times...i just wish i didnt either.

The funny thing is since ive only been doing fartleks 2on2off 3on3off etc and not timing anything...i dont feel like im running that slow. I guess my memory of what 5, 6, or 7 minute mile has also left me. I know i can fix that quick by going to a track but after this thread i think im not ready for that reality check.

I agree with what many others have said. I'm now 51 and really felt like my performance took a big hit around age 49. At 47 I ran 18 flat off of 35 mpw and one hard speed workout per week, and one long run on the weekends. Don't underestimate the how much weight matters and can make a difference between keeping injury free and running faster. Over the winter I gained a good 6 pounds because a medication and I felt fat at 5'11 156. I'm off that med now and dropped right back to 150 and feel good again.

I now work from the Daniels Blue plan and it has been good for me. Keys are most definitely consistency, and realizing when you need to back off so you don't get injured. Motivation is often the problem in that you'll drive yourself to injury very quickly. Keep losing that weight and running will get easier. Be consistent before fast.

When you're supposed to run easy, run easy! Nothing will kill your training progress faster than pushing too hard on Q workouts, and going too fast/doing too much on recovery days. Patience is key, and you just can't go train and race fast because you want to. Training progress is like walking up a flight of stairs: you can't go from stair one to six. You need to watch where you're stepping and go up each stair one at a time.

Good luck!