Good 4 him
Good 4 him
That's a whole lot of crap. Jornet races skimo every winter and does far more of those races than any ultramarathons. And they have drug tested him there a lot, every year. Guess what - no positive tests (for what that's worth).
It's just the height of stupidity to believe someone would choose a sport like ultra running specifically so they could dope and not get caught. There's little to no money in that sport, why spend all that money on doping for small pay days? It's pretty clear you can dope and win the Tour de France 7 times without getting caught. Getting away with doping is clearly not that difficult.
Listen to Jornet's interviews. Everything that guy does is about the mountains. He's obsessed with them. That's why he does ultras etc. Not to avoid detection, but his mountain fetish.
I don't think he dopes, just because he's not actually that fast (as compared to, for example, Mo) and he does what he does for himself mostly.
Superior Intellect wrote:
He is not acclimatized for 8000+ m and he has no experience at those altitudes. Going above that is not the same as going above other elevations. Your body begins to die and you lose a lot of ability to think clearly and frostbite and hypothermia are a lot easier to get because your body can't generate enough heat due to lack of oxygen. He is just another white privileged tourist that think they are bigger than Jesus.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I hope I'm wrong, but like the punchline of this joke:
http://www.funny-games.biz/jokes/bit-by-snake.html
Even worse, he might not die but might end up like that Kenyan dude in Alaska who got frostbite on his feet and lost them.
SlowFatMaster wrote:
I hope I'm wrong, but like the punchline of this joke:
http://www.funny-games.biz/jokes/bit-by-snake.htmlEven worse, he might not die but might end up like that Kenyan dude in Alaska who got frostbite on his feet and lost them.
What they don't tell you is that the people who get frostbite on their hands and feet on Everest also get frostbite on their genitals since the body shuts off blood flow to extremities. They have to amputate the genitals.
2:15-2:20 is spot on for what KJ could run in a road marathon.
He ran a 10km road race once, here's the video
Do us a favor & just read this
I've only lost in races against KJ (usually when I lose against others as well).
But it's also always in mountain races (i.e. "The Rut" 50km and "Transvulcania" to name a few) which are fairly extreme ultras with technical trails. In races like that he has consistently beaten me by 10-15min. He has done "runnable" ultras like Western States and the UROC 100km in the US and hasn't always dominated. Luis Alberto is a better flat out climber than him (at least what I've witnessed firsthand at Transvulcania).
However, I don't think he could run a 2:15 marathon. I wish he would try sometime and prove me wrong, but the sheer focus of events for MUT Running is too specific. Last time I tried to go from mountain running to running road marathons I got 2-3min slower for the road marathon. KJ probably won't enter any "runnable" ultra/trail race anytime soon (or ever again). No California-style smooth dirt trails and no JFK 50 or any road ultras probably for sure. Definitely not Comrades.
KJ is an amazing mountain athlete, but he's not touching Matt Carpenter's 2:01 ascent up Pikes Peak....or Jono Wyatt's 56-min on Mt. Washington I don't think. It takes a bit more than sub 2:19 marathon speed and a climbing specialty to even approach those marks.
Oh boy, Sage... I expected you to be more objective, but you're seem to be butthurt. Anyway;
1. Luis Alberto always "run" with hiking poles. Anyone who uses them can see the advantage. Besides he never beat KJ.
2. On Pikes Peak he won very easily and wasn't really pushed by anybody. If you follow Kilian you should know he doesn't go hard if it's not necessary to win. Vide Hardrock 2016.
half brain runners wrote:
Oh boy, Sage... I expected you to be more objective, but you're seem to be butthurt. Anyway;
1. Luis Alberto always "run" with hiking poles. Anyone who uses them can see the advantage. Besides he never beat KJ.
2. On Pikes Peak he won very easily and wasn't really pushed by anybody. If you follow Kilian you should know he doesn't go hard if it's not necessary to win. Vide Hardrock 2016.
Nah. Sage is being totally fair and honest. It's great to hear his opinion because he's toed the line with runners like Jornet.
Jonathan Wyatt is a legend in mountain running, he was fast on the flat and he turned out to be a monster going up things too.
Kilian is more of a mountain goat, an instinctive runner and very talented.
It's completely fair to say that Kilian would have to reach a new level of flat speed to be able to equal someone like Wyatt's prowess on more runnable routes.
Kilian joined tons of races even without ever training or knowing the course like other athletes.
Most of the time he really don't care about pushing the pace for a record, just enough for a win.
Half of the year he didn't even run at all, only alpine skiing.
Matt Carperter trained on Pikes Peak course for days on end.
Don't worry Sage, you're good at doing videos.
sub3over40 wrote:
Superior Intellect wrote:He is not acclimatized for 8000+ m and he has no experience at those altitudes. Going above that is not the same as going above other elevations. Your body begins to die and you lose a lot of ability to think clearly and frostbite and hypothermia are a lot easier to get because your body can't generate enough heat due to lack of oxygen. He is just another white privileged tourist that think they are bigger than Jesus.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Have you even read his blog? It specifically talks about what he is going to do to attempt to acclimatize. Now that doesn't mean he will have no problem - as he is obviously knows - but to state that he isn't aware of what he is facing, and is attempting to be ready for it, is just ignorant.
My objectiveness is in this:I believe it's a big extrapolation to say that someone who is really good at gnarly mountain climbing/powerhiking/SkyRunning could go out and run a 2:15 marathon. I've trained and run with lots of guys that have run 2:15 marathons (road runners only) and I've run with lots of guys that are pure ultra-trail runners. Specific Running Economy matters. You are wrong also, as Luis has beaten KJ. Rob Krar and Dakota Jones have also beaten KJ. Anybody can use poles in a lot of these races...KJ has used them before. Luis was an Olympian...yeah he is a great climber with poles. On climbing gradient, traction, altitude and technique (be it powerhiking or using poles) all matter. KJ is really a better descender....that is his strength.
half brain runners wrote:
Oh boy, Sage... I expected you to be more objective, but you're seem to be butthurt. Anyway;
1. Luis Alberto always "run" with hiking poles. Anyone who uses them can see the advantage. Besides he never beat KJ.
2. On Pikes Peak he won very easily and wasn't really pushed by anybody. If you follow Kilian you should know he doesn't go hard if it's not necessary to win. Vide Hardrock 2016.
Tony. wrote:
Kilian joined tons of races even without ever training or knowing the course like other athletes.
Most of the time he really don't care about pushing the pace for a record, just enough for a win.
Half of the year he didn't even run at all, only alpine skiing.
Matt Carperter trained on Pikes Peak course for days on end.
Well....
No one's questioning Kilian Jornet's sheer talent and ability, but Matt Carpenter and Jonathan Wyatt are legends of mountain running, even Kilian would have to raise his game to surpass those guys in their prime.
Sage, the objectiveness is this:
Kilian wins without specific training (and with little running)
Sage breaks down with tons of specific training - last WS100.
Videos and words, and more videos and more words...
How is this relevant?
Pick up the latest issue of National Geographic. This 64 year old scientist spent 6 weeks above 23,000ft studying ah!t.
He says, "yeah, they say above the death zone you have issues and elite climbers spend maybe a couple of hours up here, well I spent 3 weeks above 26,000 ft."
It's overblown. A 64 year old scientist proved it.
At least Sage is very talented at talking, it could be from some sort of specific training.
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Ryan Eiler, 3rd American man at Boston, almost out of nowhere
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion