Pharr's through walk was damn impressive.
Jurek's not-even-a-glory-shuffle was weak.
Meltzer...
Pharr's through walk was damn impressive.
Jurek's not-even-a-glory-shuffle was weak.
Meltzer...
Thanks, that's a very helpful piece of contextual info! It's encouraging to hear that he's only like 10 miles behind JPD. That said, I've always heard that it was considered that she really picked it up in the second half, especially starting in VA. To match her, he'll have to do the same. A negative split seems harder with the running approach than the walking approach, but we'll find out over the next few weeks! Like I said, I'm pulling for him, but he'll have to start covering an extra 7.4 miles per day, albeit over easier terrain on average.
BTW, I once hiked a 50 mile day on the AT (48 official trail miles). That was just with a day pack, much less weight than most thru hikers would carry (although I guess Meltzer and Jurek might have been carrying similar with all that crew assistance). Anyway, I was in pretty decent running shape at the time (for me - like 60 miles a week, 15-high shape) and I was pretty destroyed after. Definitely couldn't have come back and done it the next day. And day 2 isn't even the hard part...it's like I ran the first 1200m of a marathon and I already had to tap out. What these guys are attempting is really tough.
More impressive was this woman doing it in 54.5 days, carrying all her own stuff, sleeping alone and fetching here own food and water.
Supported AT FKT are a farce, akin to climbing Mt. Everest with a team of sherpas at your back.
girls wrote:
More impressive was this woman doing it in 54.5 days, carrying all her own stuff, sleeping alone and fetching here own food and water.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/10/30/how-this-woman-broke-the-record-for-hiking-the-appalachian-trail/?utm_term=.73fa4dd8e924Supported AT FKT are a farce, akin to climbing Mt. Everest with a team of sherpas at your back.
That, my friends, is damn impressive. I mean DAMN impressive. I can't even imagine. There are some pretty freaking remote parts of the AT. I think Meltzer was talking in one interview about their being over 40 miles in the more Northern states between towns were you could get supplies.
Of course, given this is LR, I am surprised that no one has asked for her data to back up her claims! How do we know she didn't pull a Rossi, Young, et all?
I can't imagine something more boring than this.
Hope he will get some good bucks at least.
I think part of the reason why women can compete with the men on these very long walks is that the women start with more body fat and lose less of it than their male counterparts. Male's muscles start to convert to energy rather than produce energy and that's why they look like skeletons and fall apart. Women do the opposite, they burn more fat for fuel and their muscles can grow with caloric intake still.
Restrained, Maimed & Slain wrote:
I can't imagine something more boring than this.
Hope he will get some good bucks at least.
I actually really like hiking and camping, but the parts of the AT I've been on (and the photos I've seen), don't really do it for me. Dense forests make me feel claustrophobic after a while.
Hiking the PCH sounds much more appealing. (Or riding the Dempster Highway, which I've done.)
PCT = more scenic, bigger climbs, longer, logistically harder
AT = more strenuous, lower elevations but more total gain, easier to resupply, crowded
the main differences in a nutshell
maybe they are just tougher or more psychologically suited as well?give them more credit than just physiological / genetic gender traits you don't have supporting facts ofmaybe men don't think it through fully. 45 days in't just a little accomplishment to bang out. takes patience and controli'm a dude, btw
girls wrote:
I think part of the reason why women can compete with the men on these very long walks is that the women start with more body fat and lose less of it than their male counterparts. Male's muscles start to convert to energy rather than produce energy and that's why they look like skeletons and fall apart. Women do the opposite, they burn more fat for fuel and their muscles can grow with caloric intake still.
Old Man Runner wrote:
Old Man Runner wrote:I forgot this is letsrun, where everyone can average 43 to 45 miles a day (which is 300+ mile weeks), on sometimes gnarly trails, with about 5,000 feet of climbing for 6 straight weeks?
If it's so funny, go out and try to do it.
UltraTempos wrote:
Yep, most of us here are doing 45 miles of uphill tempo runs at elevation, everyday. This Meltzer dude is soft.
In trainers!
Relaxed!
So when it comes to super long stuff like this or even those 100M "races" how big of a difference is there between walking it and "running" it (or running the runnable parts)?
If your typical ultra guy takes X time to run 100M, but you can walk it in Y why not just walk if the differential is minuscule?
Can we find out EXACTLY where he is? I can only find that he's in Pennsylvania now.
In my opinion he's not on pace to break Scott's record. Scott when North Bound. He's on pace maybe to break the South Bound record.
Hardrock has 2 records one for CCW and for CW.
NotanUltraGuy wrote:
So when it comes to super long stuff like this or even those 100M "races" how big of a difference is there between walking it and "running" it (or running the runnable parts)?
If your typical ultra guy takes X time to run 100M, but you can walk it in Y why not just walk if the differential is minuscule?
People run in ultras because walking is too slow. The top guys in a 100M run the whole time, and pretty quickly too. The middle of the packers run most of the time but mix in some walking. The back of the packers walk a lot of the time but mix in some running. If you just walk the whole time, you might be able to finish the race in last place if you are a reasonably fast walker and never take any breaks, but in most ultras you will be kicked out pretty early for not making time cut offs.
For example, at the 100M closest to my house, the winning guys typically run about 8 minute pace and the winning girls typically run about 9 minute pace. The course is gravel with rolling hills. It's easy for an ultra course, but it would be considered slow in the context of a road race. Here are some results I pulled up from a couple years ago: There were about 200 finishers. The winner averaged 7:20 which was on the quicker side. Last place averaged 18:00, which you could indeed do at a relatively brisk walk assuming zero breaks, but more realistically was a mix with a bit of running and lots of walking (especially since it was a 65 year old woman). 100th place averaged 13 minute miles which would have to be at least half running.
As the distance gets longer, walking starts to make more sense. But even in six-day races (which yes, are apparently a thing) the top guys are covering close to, or even over, 100 miles per day, which obviously requires that they are running most of the time. The most extreme ultra race I know of in terms of pure distance is the Sri Chimnoy 3100 mile race, around a single city block in NYC over and over. The top runners there run more or less continuously for 40-45 days, covering 70-80 miles per day.
When trying to set a FKT on the Appalachian Trail, terrain obviously comes into it also. Someone with more experience will have to chime in, but in my opinion a mixed strategy of walking the uphills and jogging some of the flats and mild downhills will probably be the best in the end. Jurek got the record despite his lack of multi-day experience, just on the basis of his immense grit and physical talent, but I fully expect the record to come down by a few days in the next 5 or 10 years once some top multi-day runners take it on.
sidebyside wrote:
PCT = more scenic, bigger climbs, longer, logistically harder
AT = more strenuous, lower elevations but more total gain, easier to resupply, crowded
the main differences in a nutshell
Right, PCT not "PCH" (which is a lovely drive when the traffic isn't bad, but not what I meant to say).
I was out hiking on the AT this past Monday near Bluemont VA and ran into Meltzer's dad and support crew who were waiting for him at a road crossing. Had a nice chat with his dad. So, he's probably about 90 miles down the trail from Bluemont, VA.
A "lady" held the FKT for the AT supported until Jurek broke it a year ago. Another "lady" currently holds the FKT for the AT and the PCT unsupported.
BrewGod wrote:
In my opinion he's not on pace to break Scott's record. Scott when North Bound. He's on pace maybe to break the South Bound record.
Hardrock has 2 records one for CCW and for CW.
Good for Hardrock. We're talking about the AT though.
The words in the woods is he was at Turk Gap last night in VA. That puts him roughly 45 miles per day since he started and he needs to keep going roughly 50 miles per day for the next 17 days to beat Jurek. Last week Karl had a discouraging 16 mile day which put him back quite a bit. I think he needs to somehow keep it at 35-65 per day but also with one 75+ mile day thrown in there somehow.
"Day 27 Update: Karl seems to be doing excellent, and the new crew is settling in together well. His shin pain and swelling has subsided thanks to a more effective way he found to tape and cover it. Karl's speed walk has now turned into a jog or near-run at a consistent pace. Eric and the crew are particularly happy because Karl is feeling better and putting in more daily miles, consistently. Karl has been eating through a lot of cans of ravioli, mandarin oranges and Red Bull over the past few days.
The trail terrain in this area is varied, but mostly it is hilly. One thru-hiker called it “the roller coaster.†Today Karl went further than anticipated again and knocked out a whopping 55.8 miles after covering 60 miles the day before. Tomorrow he will begin the first real test since the White Mountains as we enter Shenandoah National Park."
-posted 30 min ago though I assume they wrote it last night