Will Alexi Pappas and David Torrance stay out of US Championships?

Half right wrote:

Now that they have made the decision to represent Greece and Peru will they remain true to those countries or will they manipulate the system and take US monies that are designated for US athletes?

Why are you worrying about such trivial things?

are they fast enough to win any money?

Both are still US citizens so I am not sure you can keep them out.

David Torrence is longer a viable Torrence in the USA. Scott, his father, served in this land and this is this reason David also may claim Japanese citizenship. As it lies, Daveed has chosen his path and oath. He will never run for the US again.

Tantamount to traitor.

Ok, so nobody knows the answer. Everybody answering so far is just trolling, despite the fact that the op asked a (half) sincere question.

Can you run at US championships if you have changed your athletic affiliation to another country?

Half right wrote:

Now that they have made the decision to represent Greece and Peru will they remain true to those countries or will they manipulate the system and take US monies that are designated for US athletes?

Are all you Generation Snowflakes so limited in your computer skills that you are unable to find and read the IAAF rules?

I think you want IAAF Rule 5.4(e). Allow me to summarize it for you. For plastic traitors like Torrence and Pappas, once they've competed for their phony country, then it's real hard to switch back, intentionally so. Seb Coe wants to make it even harder to switch back, and I've got his back on that.

The nominal wait time to switch back to USA for these 2 dweebs would be 3 years, but that can easily be reduced to 12 months, which would still keep them out of the 2017 USATF meets. But it could be totally waived in "exceptional cases," which I take to mean that you have to bribe someone, or maybe if you're unable to continue to represent Blagonia or wherever because the country no longer exists, or that they would boil you and eat you if you went back.

5.4(e) Dual Citizenship: if an athlete holds Citizenship of two (or more) Countries (or territories), he may represent the Member of either (or any) of them, as he may elect. However, having once represented his elected Member in an international Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), he shall not represent another Member of which he is a Citizen for a period of three years from the date that he last represented the first elected Member. this period may be reduced or cancelled as set out below:

(i) the period may be reduced to 12 months with the agreement of the Members concerned. the reduction shall be effective upon receipt by the iAAF Office of a written notification of the Members’ agreement;

(ii) the period may be reduced or cancelled in exceptional cases by the Council. An application for a reduction or cancellation must be submitted by the relevant Member in writing to the iAAF Office at least 30 days before the international Competition in question.

The application of Rule 5.4(e) is limited to athletes who were born with dual citizenship. An athlete who holds Citizenship of two or more Countries (or territories) by virtue of the fact that he has acquired a new Citizenship (for example, through marriage) without relinquishing his Citizenship of birth is subject to the provisions of Rule 5.4(d).

END

Sorry, I guess I'm limited in my comprehension skills. Rule 5.4(e) does not apply to the people in question. We want Rule 5.4(d), because the last line of 5.4(e) said that's where to go for an acquisition of new citizenship without giving up your first citizenship. I don't see anything in 5.4(d) about switching back. No wonder Coe wants to clamp down on this country-switching.

It appears to me that there's nothing from keeping DT & AP from representing the USA tomorrow if they could make a team. You will notice that earlier this year, they each must have done whatever was necessary to claim an "exceptional" case under 5.4(d)(iii). I guess you don't need much to claim that, just say you really, really, want to run in the Olympics and here's some cash to help you read my application.

5.4(d) Acquisition of new Citizenship: if the athlete acquires a new Citizenship, he may represent his new Member in an international Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), but no earlier than three years following the date of acquisition of new Citizenship pursuant to the athlete’s application. this period of three years may be reduced or cancelled as set out below:

(i) the period may be reduced to 12 months with the agreement of the Members concerned. the reduction shall be effective upon receipt by the iAAF Office of a written notification of the Members’ agreement;

(ii) the period shall be cancelled if the athlete has completed three continuous years of Residence in the Country (or territory) of his new membership immediately preceding the international Competition in question;

(iii) the period may be reduced or cancelled in exceptional cases by the Council. An application for a reduction or cancellation must be submitted by the relevant Member in writing to the iAAF Office at least 30 days before the international Competition in question.

END

I am not talking about representing USA or putting on a USA kit for,foreign competition.

Can they run and collect dollars in USA road championships?

Half right wrote:

I am not talking about representing USA or putting on a USA kit for,foreign competition.

Can they run and collect dollars in USA road championships?

Without reading into IAAF rules, look at this purse layout and results from the Cherry Blossom USATF 10mi champs in 2014.

(Low_Res).pdf

Top 5 were not American USATF runners. They did not receive the USATF designated money. Chris Landry was the first US runner in 6th place.

I guess it all comes down to how USATF/IAAF determine the country an athlete runs for. It sounds like that Pappas and Torrence can't race as USATF for three years now that they have represented another country internationally. Dual citizenship doesn't mean you can rep two countries at once in IAAF.

Diego Estrada

This is actually a great question. USATF Natl Office have no policies on this. I've tried to look everywhere and can't seem to find anything. Maybe LetsRun can help?

If they have a USATF # and they pay their dues, then YES I believe they should be able to collect US $. All that the IAAF says is that they CAN'T represent another country as in wear their team kit for 3+ years etc. IAAF rules say nothing about competing in national championships.

I have dual citizenships and I've competed at US and my birth nation's championships and collected prize money in both. I don't think that should be a problem. I pay my USATF dues and I pay my taxes here as well.

I think USATF National Office do need to clarify their ruling on this though. I once emailed the USATF office about competing at US Oly trials and other US Natl Championships and I never heard back. It's kind of a grey area I guess.

To some degree the race could control it by not offering them travel money, housing, etc.

Personally, I think the rules should be the following:

1: An individual can represent their birth country with no initial restrictions.

2: An individual who gains additional citizenship must wait four (4) years from the date the citizenship is granted to represent the new country in international competition

3: An individual who gains additional citizenship must primarily reside in their new country during the 4 year waiting period.

4: If an individual takes on secondary citizenship after their birth citizenship and represents their new country in international competition, there is a 3 year waiting period before they can represent their birth country, from the date of their last international competition.

I think these rules are fair and easy to follow. Essentially, if you are gaining citizenship, you need to actually live and be apart of that new country.

I would say that Letsrun could do something about this as well. They could make this an issue and bring it to the attention of the RD or Elite athlete coordinator when it occurs.

Great observations, but you basically misunderstood the entire question by the OP.

the question here is not regarding representation.. That is already taken care of by the IAAF.

The real question is regarding prize money at USATF Natl Events, accommodations, travel etc to "national" championships and ability to have a registration into the national championship events in where spots are being decided for international events.

For example:

Alex Pappas has American and Greek Citizenships.

By virtue of having a USATF Membership #, she is allowed to register for a US championship even though she has declared to run internationally for Greece in the next 3 years.

Questions 1) Does the USATF let her compete knowing that she's a "declared international runner for Greece" ? She has ability to affect the race pace, especially since she runs 10k and prevent other of her "competitors" from qualifying to the international events.

Question 2) IF it's a World/Olympic year in which she finishes Top 3, does the USATF count her "out" as in when they count out those who don't have the international standards for IAAF events?

Question 3) Knowing that she is not/will not represent the US, do they even let her in the race?

Question 4) Do they award her prize money, knowing that she has the ability to double dip? I.E. run Greek champs in May and collect $$ and then run US champs in June and collect $$?

These are some issues that USATF have no answer for (at least not in writing). Brojos, please help!

USATF Member wrote:

This is actually a great question. USATF Natl Office have no policies on this. I've tried to look everywhere and can't seem to find anything.

It's crazy how far they'll go to hide this stuff:

"USATF 2016 Competition Rules & Regulations, Rule 1 - National Championships: Eligibility"

USATF Member wrote:

These are some issues that USATF have no answer for (at least not in writing). Brojos, please help!

Even if one of their paid spokesliars such as Jill Geer provided an answer, that is no guarantee that what they say is actually what they will do on the day. USATF makes up the rules as it goes along, which is one of the many reasons T&F is a minor sport.

Monkeys typing wrote:

USATF Member wrote:

This is actually a great question. USATF Natl Office have no policies on this. I've tried to look everywhere and can't seem to find anything.

It's crazy how far they'll go to hide this stuff:

"USATF 2016 Competition Rules & Regulations, Rule 1 - National Championships: Eligibility"

http://www.usatf.org/usatf/files/08/08858a62-cbaa-4828-ae85-bd9384f33fcc.pdf

Good for you. Rule 1.1(a) states:

Only citizens of the United States who are eligible to represent the United States in all levels of international competition are eligible to compete.

There you are. So if the IAAF has not blessed a switch back from Grease or Peroo to USA, then they cannot run in the USATF Championships meet. And as posted above, they may have to buy an indulgence from the IAAF to avoid a long waiting period on the switch back.

Monkeys typing wrote:

It's crazy how far they'll go to hide this stuff:

"USATF 2016 Competition Rules & Regulations, Rule 1 - National Championships: Eligibility"

http://www.usatf.org/usatf/files/08/08858a62-cbaa-4828-ae85-bd9384f33fcc.pdf

Where it says:

"In the Open Men's and Women's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field Championships....only citizens of the United States who are eligible to represent the United States in all levels of international competition are eligible to compete."

So...

Bernard Lagat represented Kenya in the 2000 and 2004 Olympics.