Roughly speaking, is there a steady job market where I'll be able to find good pay?
Roughly speaking, is there a steady job market where I'll be able to find good pay?
potentiallyinterestedstudent wrote:
Roughly speaking, is there a steady job market where I'll be able to find good pay?
Law has a hugely oversaturated job market. If you can get into one of the T14 (Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia, NYU, Northwestern, Berkeley, etc) or the next top ~3 - 5 (Georgetown, UCLA, etc) and graduate in the top half of your class or better then go for it. If you can only make it into podunk state law, then you're looking at a ton of debt and the same job prospects as a bachelors (and a ton of time wasted if you don't manage to pass the bar).
You don't get into top 10 schools, get ready to hustle and bustle. Even at the top tier, nothing like what it used to. Look for another profession unless you really love law. You will have 200k debt and there is one guy driving Uber to make a living doing class action suit against his school.
I'll echo what has been said in the previous posts with one or two things added. First things first, make sure you actually want to go to law school/be a lawyer. If you haven't worked at a law firm as a paralegal, file room clerk whatever, do that first. It will tell you if you like the legal practice while also giving you a leg up over other students in law school.
If you get into a T14 school and can stay in the top 50% of your class, you will have decent job prospects. Outside top school, you really have to be in the top 5% of your class to have a shot at the "prestigious" law jobs.
If you go to a state school or whatever make sure you want to practice in the region (don't go to UGA Law thinking you will just hop up to the NYC market after grad).
If you aren't going to a T14 school, make sure you are going for free. (100% scholarship. Not something conditional like keep X grades to maintain scholarship).
My story? about 7 years ago I went to an unremarkable law school (Tier 2) that gave me a full scholarship. I picked a practice area that I was interested in and looked for opportunities/connections in that field. I didn't concern myself with making a ton of money, but rather on having a good work/life balance. I am really happy at the mid-size (80 lawyer) firm that I selected to work at. I make good money, do interesting work, and my wife and I are considering starting a family.
Hope this helps.
Also, if your reason for getting into law is the money, you are picking the wrong profession. The money is good, but the work is hard. Lots of people hate the field and leave. If you aren't actually interested in the law, but what to make money, I suggest business or banking or something. Lets work, more money (sort of).
NOOOO. Its awful.
However, its not as hard as people make it out to be(for hard: see medicine) so if you're willing to put in the work and can get into a decent school it can be a decent path to take
Many of us are doing something else completely.
Not steady at all.
I've met one other lawyer who was happy and he is actually insane.
potentiallyinterestedstudent wrote:
Roughly speaking, is there a steady job market where I'll be able to find good pay?
Like medicine it really depends where you stand in your class. You better be in the top 25 to get a decent job offer then be prepared to work 7 days a week and at least 60 to 70 hrs each week.
It's a life not a job.
Are you prepared for hat?
No? Don't go into law then.
If you aren't attending a top tier law school, I think it's only worth it if you have some specific niche that you are interested in or qualified for. I know of a few guys who attended lower-tier law schools after working in real estate development for a few years. Those guys all did well because they already understood real estate transactions prior to law school, and they had the connections in the industry to get work as soon as they were able to practice.
I'd say that if you have a specific purpose, a lower-tier law school can be okay, but if you're just going to law school with the hope of coming out with any random job at the other end, I wouldn't recommend it.
IF (that's a big if) you end up going to law school, I urge you to take LEEWS (leews.com) and to read Planet Law School, though you should take it with a considerable grain of salt.
No, the legal profession will be fully automated within 10-15 years. Go into a field that cannot be replaced with robots
Career Advisor wrote:
No, the legal profession will be fully automated within 10-15 years. Go into a field that cannot be replaced with robots
Anyone who believes this doesn't understand what lawyers do.
Major in a STEM field and get a patent law certification. This is the only under saturated niche in the field of law.
mr law man wrote:
Career Advisor wrote:No, the legal profession will be fully automated within 10-15 years. Go into a field that cannot be replaced with robots
Anyone who believes this doesn't understand what lawyers do.
Surprise, surprise - a lawyer who overvalues their worth. Hope you've managed to develop some transferable skills that fit into a tech savvy world
Law is not like Mechanical Engineering. My son graduated with a BSME at a small DIII in Kentucky with no R&D fame and today he makes $500,000 year as an aerospace industry entrepreneur in Redondo Beach/LAX.
Everyone who claims you have to go to a T14 honestly doesn't know what they're talking about. Go to any school in Texas and you can graduate making 180k at a big firm first year (this does require you to graduate in the top 10%). Go to any major state school (U. of Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, North Carolina, etc.) and you can make over 100k as a first year associate, all with relatively minimal debt.
I will agree with everyone that the one key is graduating near the top of your class. If you undertake 150k in debt to get in to a low level state school, then graduate in the bottom half, you better hope you have some great connections.
Depends where you are as other have stated and what % you come in your class. You do not need to go to a top tier school but MUST come in the top % for your class. Think top 5% as other have stated to work in an actual large firm. Otherwise it's get your hustle on.
Both cases you will be working crazy hours except if you don't end up in the path of top 5% you will be working 60 to 80 hours a week and may not get paid for all that work. At least if you are top 5% in your class you will be pulling down a nice salary and not trying to scrounge up work.
I know a relatively smart young woman who went a very good NE university for undergrad and an unremarkable NE Law School and is now teaching yoga 3x a week at night to try and keep up with her student loan debt on top of her legal job. Roughly $250k in total student loan debt.
Now is the WORST time to go to law school. There is a very significant oversaturation of lawyers out there and this will not end soon.
At a DA's office I worked in we had about 100 applications for 1 opening and that job paid $49,000/year. Stop and think about that.
Where I work I see new lawyers with over $100,000 in debt. This is now the norm. Many are simply paying off the interest.
I disagree about needing to go to a top 14 or so law school. Go to a well respected law school in the area you want to practice. Do not go to Arkansas if you want to practice in Wisconsin. Lawyers often like to hire people that went to their old school, plus you can make connections and get clerking jobs that can lead to real jobs.
Understand this as well: the VAST majority of law students are going to be in a single person firms or with just a couple others. You will also be doing family law, criminal law or some basic trust/estate stuff. You will, statistically speaking, not be working in a big firm.
It has become COMMON where I work for recent graduates to come work here for free for months hoping that when a job opens up they will get it. Sometimes they do. We have several people working here for free now that work about 40 hours here then at night go to their job bar tending to pay the rent.
I graduated about 20 years ago. I would bet 40% or so of my class no longer practice. I know of almost no lawyers that would tell their own kid to go to law school.
What I did not know and no one told me was that when you get out of law school what will be far more important than knowledge of the law is how good of a salesperson are you? Getting clients and keeping them is much more important than your knowledge of the law.
If you must go to law school, get a teaching certificate in college so you can have an alternative career path if you need it or want it. Otherwise get a BS in a STEM field.
Odds are you will not be working in a large firm and even if you do, there is a high turnover in many and you wont be there for long. A previous poster mentioned he was in a "mid size" firm of about 80 attorneys. In Wisconsin, that would be a "large" firm.
I am hearing, not sure if it is true, that there are about 2 recent grads for every job opening. Keep in mind, even if the job market is better in 3 years, you will still be competing against all the people who graduated before you and are under employed.
This is a very good article: