"Mo Farah could never run 12:37/39/40/45/50"

Namechanged2protecttheinnocent wrote:

Bekele and geb could have run faster with better pacing. In both their records their pacemaker sucked and dropped out way early. So then if mo Farah was given superlative pacing (more than one pacer and up to 4k/4200m) he could break the world record that was set with lousy pacing. There just haven't been as many fast and well paced races/time trials/ record attempts on the circuit in mo Farahs championship years than in the years of all the names we are familiar with. The only fast 5k I can remember in recent times is Paris 2012 with all those dudes under 12:50 inc gebriwhet and gebremeskel at 12:46 to 12:47. Mo Farah is a superlative 1500m to half marathon runner. This thread's logic is very flawed.

This thread's premise is essentially the same as yours.

Not sure Bekele and Geb were going much faster though. Sub 12:40 is staggeringly fast running. As we got up through the distances, the potential aerodynamic benefit of a pacemaker diminishes and the extreme outlier attempting the record is liable to be better at gauging their own effort than the pacer running on their absolute limit.

This said, maybe the contribution of Martin Keino's brilliant pacemaking towards the fast running in the mid to late nineties is greatly undervalued. No Geb/Komen, but was clearly a man that could have been up there if he hadn't been spending his best years setting the pace for everyone else.

The reality is that Mo is now the most decorated track distance runner in history and he is simply a master tactician leaving his opponents completely lost and confused as to how to beat him. He is nothing but a delight to watch especially when he still manages to do the Mobot over the line.

Sure he hasn't beaten the 5 and 10 WRs but he's not that far off them and his range is astonishing. His winning record will last way longer than any fast time.

Along with Bolt, he wil be sorely missed once he retires as he has been nothing but a hero and champion in making LD running somewhat cool.

Of course, Al-Sal has to be truly praised for bringing out of Mo the very best of his ability and their partnership is simply legendary up there with the likes of Coe & Coe.

Thanks Mo for all the amazing memories!

So why did Farah race the world half champs this year then? He got destroyed off a hard pace. The reality is he can't run those world records in the 5 and 10k. Not because he wants to keep an air of being invincible at 5 and 10 and that would be compromised by going after WRs. That is probably dumbest logic I have ever heard. When have you ever heard of a runner say that they were going to hold back and not get a WR. Plus you get paid more if you set a WR. El G didn't lose that race to Ngeny because he got the world record and Ngeny was close behind him. He lost because it was a slower paced tactical race and Ngeny had a better kick.

Kamwarrior wrote:

When have you ever heard of a runner say that they were going to hold back and not get a WR. Plus you get paid more if you set a WR. El G didn't lose that race to Ngeny because he got the world record and Ngeny was close behind him. He lost because it was a slower paced tactical race and Ngeny had a better kick.

"you get paid more if you set a WR"

Farah has earned more from running than El Guerrouj, Bekele, Cherono, Komen.

When have you heard of a runner spend years avoiding frequent hard, fast racing in favour of peaking at the big championships? Well, it's worked for Farah, hasn't it? And it didn't do too badly for Lasse Viren either.

It's also very much the modus operandi of Team Sky, a similarly bluff, charmless, no expense spared outfit to Salazar's Nike Oregon set up.

I don't know exactly what times Mo could've ran on his best days at 5000m and 10000m, but definitely faster than his 12:53 and 26:45 PR's. The guy ran a 3:28.87 for 1500m, which is only 1.4% above the WR. He'd be able to run at least as comparatively fast, probably faster at 5000m and 10000m. So 12:47 or faster and 26:39 or faster.

why do you act like you know farahs shape? how do you know his fitness has been good enough to do it? pretty sure you dont coach him. or talk to him ever

I'm not rjm. I just respect the man, his opinions, and his odd writing style.

I don't care how much money Mo makes. The fact that he's a shitty exhibition racer who has made more money than Gebrselassie is the exact travesty I've been talking about regarding Mo and the current state of distance running.

Get paid big money to be a flamboyant showboating buffoon rather than win races AND set times close to one's "potential."

He's a 12:53/26:46 multi-gold championship racer in a weak era. (I'll admit he did it the harder way this year... And the 5k in particular was a blast to watch.)

But he has no place in the pantheon until he wins a championship medal in his best distance (1500) and runs in the 12:40low/26:20s. His refusal to race the 1500m proves he's a paper champion racing weak competition because he can't bear to be second or third best at his best distance.

If you saw the documentary about Farah you would have seen he was sick leading up to that race. He raced as he felt the pace would not be super hot, that a 59 type effort would be good enough for the win disregarding the rain. Maybe they made a mistake there but he really felt he could win. Losing to his main rival Kamoworor was a massive error and that was stated in the documentary.

I don't think Farah could break the WRs. I never said he could. I simply answered why he doesn't time trial for a quicker PB. I gave what I thought was a nice, well reasoned answer. You could be more simple and just say, "he doesn't need to".

The 50k bonus for a WR is worthless to Farah. He literally just didn't enter a DL end of last year where an appearance and win against a standard field would have got him 50k in prize money alone (winning diamond race and individual meet or whatever).

Oh yeah and tell me didn't Lasse Viren set two WRs in 72 just before and after the Olympics. You think in his contract he doesn't have incentives for breaking WRs. get a grip on reality

doot doot wrote:

But he has no place in the pantheon until he wins a championship medal in his best distance (1500) and runs in the 12:40low/26:20s. His refusal to race the 1500m proves he's a paper champion racing weak competition because he can't bear to be second or third best at his best distance.

Bologna. I've heard this argument before. How can your best distance be one you don't win at? Wouldn't the races you can win be your best distance? I know you'll truck out vdot info and crap, but seriously?!!

doot doot wrote:

But he has no place in the pantheon until he wins a championship medal in his best distance (1500) and runs in the 12:40low/26:20s. His refusal to race the 1500m proves he's a paper champion racing weak competition because he can't bear to be second or third best at his best distance.

1500m is not Mo's best distance. People are too hung up on raw final times. The third finisher in the Kiprop-Farah 1500m was a guy named Ndiku Mwangangi who ran 3:29.50. Mwangangi is primarily a 3000/5000 runner. The pace and conditions were ideal for fast times but that doesn't mean that those two guys would have the speed to outkick true 1500m runners. (Kiprop won quite easily.)

I definitely agree that Mo has been doing his thing at a time when the 5000/10000 division is rather weak. But that's part of the reason why his times are not fast. Why go for fast times if you can win without doing so, and you also know that you can't break the WR?

I don't know about him being sick prior to World HM. Maybe he was ,maybe that was an excuse. I did not watch the documentary but heard the rumor prior. Kamworor also got trampled in the beginning and still got up and won. 50k is worthless to Farah is not true either. It might better be stated that he doesn't chase the money by doing every race that he could win. That being said it is very hard to believe an athlete like Farah who really has nothing else to prove wouldn't be interested in going after a WR.

On Letsrun times mean everything.

I argued so much with people that genuinely believed the guys that ran 12:45+ in Paris before London 2012 were in 13:50 shape or whatever during the Olympics because that is the time they ran in the 5k final. Like American college freshman times. Men in the top 10 all-time over 5000m.

Well he was struggling in training and this reduce came prior to racing... Farah had been over training a bit this year. He lost to Kamoworor and that was a mistake they recognised. He didn't expect Kam to be in that kind of half marathon shape clearly. Even if Farah was fit I don't see him winning that race. Only Kipchoge could rival Kamoworor over HM right now.

Literally, he just needed to turn up to this European meet, I think it was Lausanne, and he would have walked away with 50k that day. He didn't go and this meeting was after worlds so he had nothing else to focus on. I don't know how much clearer I can make it that 50k is not enough for Farah to turn out.

Like I said Farah probably can't break the WRs. He is likely a 12:42 man. Your point makes no sense anyway, he has nothing left to prove as you said, therefore attempting a WR is a pointless exercise. Especially as he would likely fall a bit short in my opinion.

How the fvck do you figure that a 3:28 twice as a "non-1500m" specialist is somehow worse or a non-indicator of speciality compared to 12:53/26:46 as a 5/10k specialist!?

He absolutely cannot set a 5/10 WR. No one has ever credibly suggested this. Prime Mo couldn't have even been drug to the old WRs by Bekele in those races.

He's lightyears from either WR and I don't see a reason why people think he could do better than his PRs.

7:32-- dying. This year where he doubled gold....

12:53 -- as a much younger man.

26:46 -- dragged basically the whole way.

inthepdx wrote:

yesssum wrote:

His 5k and 10k PRs are from 2011. He's only broke 13 once in the past 4 years.

Bekele went from 12:52 to 12:37 the year he turned 22.

Geb went from 12:56 to 12:44 the year he turned 22.

Kipchoge went from 12:52 to 12:46 when he was 19.

Gebremeskel went from 12:53 to 12:46 when he was 22.

Sihine went from 13:06 to 12:47 the year he turned 21.

Farah is 33.

Those are East African years. Probably best to add 5-8 years on to each of those ages listed.

If you add 5 years to Bekele's age that would make him 39 now, and 38 when he ran 2:06 at London.

If you add 5 years to Geb's age, then he was the first person under 2:04 at the age of 40 and he ran 2:08 just short of 44.

If you add 5 years to Kipchoke's age, he just won the Olympic gold at age 36.

You know what really makes your opponents know they have no shot at beating you in a 5,000/10,000?

Running 12:37 and 26:17.

Why in %%#@! would he ask to have incentives for WRs put in his contract?

His strategy has been to never run faster than necessary. Part of making sure you stick with that strategy is insuring that you have NO incentive to run fast. I guess he might have one for the 1500 but certainly not for 5 or 10k.

"You think in his contract he doesn't have incentives for breaking WRs. get a grip on reality"

Farah reminds me of Niyongabo or even Aouita... A true 1500m/mile specialist that moved up in distance to win gold medals over weak fields!