Caster has Y chromosomes in all cells except his sperm cells.
If you clone him, you get a male.
Caster has Y chromosomes in all cells except his sperm cells.
If you clone him, you get a male.
No, but she has a mustache.
TrackB0t wrote:
You are about 20 years out of date with modern science.
+1
The stuff you learned in high school and intro bio was simplified for a reason, to drive home the general rules. Biology is absolutely filled with exceptions to those rules, and sex determination in humans is a great example of that.
It's not as clear-cut as Y chromosome or not. You're doing a disservice to the discussion by dumbing it down, because there are a bunch of grey areas and loop holes not clarified by your definition.
+1 The whole issue with the "she was born that way, so it's should be able to compete as a woman without any hormone adjustment" is that the argument could eventually be construed to cover all transgender women, who "didn't choose" to be born transgender and don't want to be "forced to undergo hormone therapy" or have surgery.
I have written an article on her being XY here:
dumbing it down wrote:
TrackB0t wrote:
You are about 20 years out of date with modern science.
+1
The stuff you learned in high school and intro bio was simplified for a reason, to drive home the general rules. Biology is absolutely filled with exceptions to those rules, and sex determination in humans is a great example of that.
It's not as clear-cut as Y chromosome or not. You're doing a disservice to the discussion by dumbing it down, because there are a bunch of grey areas and loop holes not clarified by your definition.
The question (whether an individual has a Y chromosome) is clear cut. And the answer (also clear cut) comes from karyotyping, which is integral to histology and the process of identifying genetic disorders.
Here's some more updated info on chromosome abnormalities. https://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html , but just because an individual is abnormal, it shouldn't automatically qualify them as a female.
The amount of people tossing XXY around here clearly demonstrates a profound misunderstanding. XXY = Klinefelters and that is not Caster.
It’s not unreasonable to think that Caster may be XY with intersex traits (partial androgen insensitivity?) but the OP was just asking if this has been demonstrated or released anywhere. Based on the lack of sources, I’m going to say no but would be open to someone proving me wrong.
wejo wrote:
to me that implies Caster is XY unless I'm reading it wrong.
It seems we only have that it is implied that Semenya has a Y chromosome.
I still don't see a statement of fact.
I have a dream that one day children will not compete as 'boys' and 'girls' but as people. And that we'll learn to appreciate the unique performances and struggles of each individual to achieve what they once deemed impossible. Only then can we take running seriously without taking the egos of runners seriously.
Star wrote:
wejo wrote:
to me that implies Caster is XY unless I'm reading it wrong.
It seems we only have that it is implied that Semenya has a Y chromosome.
I still don't see a statement of fact.
Deduction. If she doesn't, Doha wouldn't be her last race.
This doesn't seem to exclude XXY or any sort of mosaicism where some of her cells have a Y.
Star wrote:
I still don't see
There are none so blind as those who won't see.
Read this. It covers the main reasons that men have higher performance. Hint: Y chromosome isn't sufficient.
T limits have to be instituted because we dont't have a good test for what is a "male" or "female."
Maybe one day we will have a way to measure all the variables at play.
George213 wrote:
Star wrote:
It seems we only have that it is implied that Semenya has a Y chromosome.
I still don't see a statement of fact.
Deduction. If she doesn't, Doha wouldn't be her last race.
Isn't that her last race because of high testosterone not a Y chromosome?
Star wrote:Isn't that her last race because of high testosterone not a Y chromosome?
No, because the regulations only apply to athletes with the karyotype XY, not XX.
If she did not have a Y chromosome, there would be no need for her to appeal the ruling.
If she did not have a Y chromosome, there would be no need for her to contest the IAAF's regulations.
ExpertKipWatcher wrote:
Every debate can be over in minutes if we ignore all the real complexities and simplify it to a false dichotomy, this is after all a legitimate tactic in modern politics it appears.
Nice to see some wit here :)
Rojo I hope you read this. I take issue with a couple of your points.
There was a LOT of scholarship produced between 1993--a pivotal year in studies on gender and sexuality-- and 2000. So the fact that Anne Fausto-Sterling would have a more comprehensive view strikes me as academically responsible and not contradictory as you suggest. The issue is more complex than it was in the early 90s, and her updated view--while perhaps more ambiguous--is reflective of that.
In fact, I'll just point out that the "traditional" understanding of intersexuality that you mentioned is painfully archaic at this juncture, at least in academic circles. Sax is essentially a minority apologist for gender/sex binarism; even if you buy his claims about sex differences in language, hearing, seeing, etc., reducing gender to differences in the brain/anatomy and then using that thesis to advocate for single sex education is irresponsibly reductive. Since you are a journalist I'm scratching my head as to why you would feature this minority view and not include other recent takes from well-respected scholars.
The second point has to do with your additions to the NYT article and your criticism of the media in general.
You said "the closest we get to the truth was that some of the articles talked about how Semenya has intersex 'traits' or 'characteristics.' Let’s be real, if you are an XY woman, you are the very definition of what virtually everyone would think of as intersex."
Why is this the case? Because of the elevated testosterone? And why is the XY omission so glaring? Your piece suggests some kind of conspiracy on the part of the media. To me the NYT rightly places the focus on testosterone levels because XY has not been proven to be the single determining factor in the whole discussion on the fairness of competition among females. There are many factors. Being intersex isn't as simple as you purport and limiting it to one fundamental difference in this way reflects poor research. AIS alone has multiple categories.
Dr. R wrote:
There was a LOT of scholarship produced between 1993--a pivotal year in studies on gender and sexuality-- and 2000.
OMG, there sure was! Wait, wut?