Let’s assume that the Chinese and Eastern Bloc records were the results of doping – which pretty much everyone believes. Now assume by some miracle or super-technology that after these records were set there were only clean athletes competing. It was impossible for anyone to ever dope again. Would those records would stand forever? Or would they eventually be eclipsed by more talented athletes with superior training and equipment (e.g., shoes, etc.), who also happened to be clean?
There is almost always constant improvement in sports. Three Americans ran sub-12:57 yesterday and American-raised Grijalva ran 12:52. Four HS kids also ran under 4 minutes in one race yesterday and over 100 high schoolers have broken 9 this year. There are HS runners today faster than Zatopek, one of the all-time greats.
Do I think there is doping is track today? Yes. Do I think Faith Kipyegon is doping? I have no idea. We do know that she is extraordinarily talented. And we knew from the time she won a World XC title as a barefoot 17-year old girl that she was special. I think if Faith raced the top Chinese runners from the 90s in a race where everyone was clean she would destroy them.
Let’s assume that the Chinese and Eastern Bloc records were the results of doping – which pretty much everyone believes. Now assume by some miracle or super-technology that after these records were set there were only clean athletes competing. It was impossible for anyone to ever dope again. Would those records would stand forever? Or would they eventually be eclipsed by more talented athletes with superior training and equipment (e.g., shoes, etc.), who also happened to be clean?
There is almost always constant improvement in sports. Three Americans ran sub-12:57 yesterday and American-raised Grijalva ran 12:52. Four HS kids also ran under 4 minutes in one race yesterday and over 100 high schoolers have broken 9 this year. There are HS runners today faster than Zatopek, one of the all-time greats.
Do I think there is doping is track today? Yes. Do I think Faith Kipyegon is doping? I have no idea. We do know that she is extraordinarily talented. And we knew from the time she won a World XC title as a barefoot 17-year old girl that she was special. I think if Faith raced the top Chinese runners from the 90s in a race where everyone was clean she would destroy them.
At least no one can accuse her of coming out of "nowhere". They've seen her progression since she was a teenager winning junior races and world junior XC barefoot.
Yep. They are doping their athletes as juniors, then apologists tout their junior performances as "evidence" that they are not doping. And I seem to recall that a number of the Chinese runners were teenagers when they went on their 90s rampage.
Faith Kipyegon just outkicked Genzebe Dibaba to win the Women's 1500. Here's why I think she's dirty:
3. Kipyegon's coach (Bram Som of the Netherlands) also coaches Abeba Aregawi who was busted for Meldonium use. I think there's 0% chance that Aregawi's use was not known by Som, and likely that she's on a whole stew of PEDs - just got busted for that one. One dirty athlete under a coach makes the others very suspect.
Bram Som also coaches Beatrice Chepkoech, who went from 8:59 in 2017 to 8:44 and the world record in 2018, and was accused of doping by Emma Coburn.
astro, it was already said you should go back to your Tuohy threads. It's your level of competition, sth for you.
Kipyegon already ran 3:56.98 as a 19-year-old, 5th U20 woman all time behind only Chinese teenagers.
NACAC area U20 record is 4:03.39 by Alexa EFRAIMSON in 2015. Tuohy achieved 4:12.55 as a junior.
We understand your anger, maybe an anger management therapy? Do not talk and write about people that are much above your level of understanding.
Congrats on doping at 19... Do letsrun people know that you can dope as a junior. There are hundreds of teens in the US using steroids just to lift heavier weights and look bigger.
The sad deflection attempts. Yes I follow ncaa distance running because it is the last remnant of clean competition in the sport.
Anyway, read that second paragraph again. Only the Chinese superdopers were ahead of her. Because Faith was doping at 19 just like the Chinese did. Duh.
There is a real possibility of natural increase in RBC volume after pregnancy. RBC’s increase dramatically while pregnant and it would be an interesting hypothesis to see if certain woman continue the natural rise of RBC post delivery as opposed to returning to natural RBC volume.
I'm really tired to see people accusing of doping athletes they never personally met.
If you know something ofr athletics, you can only admire the amazing running technique of Faith, product of natural talent. Look at the elastic reaction, the relax under the hard efforts, the tactical ability and the absolute mental balance in any part of the race.
Ask yourself because EVERY COMPETITOR goes to celebrate her WR. Of course, nobody exists who can have the suspicion Faith is on drugs : everybody accept her superior talent, and likes her sweet character : friendly with everybody, never arrogant, always ready to help other people in Kenya.
In 2016-2017, she lived in Keringet (2700m altitude). I went, together with one of my assistant coaches, from Iten to Keringet twice per week, for coaching Geoffrey Kirui, who in that year won Boston and WCh. The plan was, for Kirui, 10 following days in Iten, the next 10 days in Keringet, at home, with myself moving from Iten (about 250 km far).
In Keringet, I lived in the same house of Faith. She was still young, but already Olympic Champion in Rio de Janeiro. She was the one preparing lunch and dinner, and taking care of cleaning the house together with her sister Beatrice. She was absolutely a normal person, never using her victories for becoming arrogant.
When I was there, many girls (not only runners) came every day asking for some support, not only money, but regarding common problems, and she always helped everybody, sometimes organizing a working group when the requested support was in that direction, sometimes moving personally when people needed to be encouraged to solve problems of their life.
Only to think Faith is on doping is an insult not only for the athlete, but for every person who, like Faith, has the only fault to be born with superior talent, and with a wonderful character. Who, without knowing, put not only under suspicion, but with TOTAL CERTAINTY Faith (doped, doped and doped, don't you Armstronglivs ?), shows only his total absence of balance, tha absolute incompetence in athletics and incapacity to do analysis based on facts and not on "beliefs" already cultivated with years of suspicions : in other words, shows that his contribution to the solution of every problem is ZERO, because fruit of a sick and obsessed mentality, probably not only about athletics, but about every situation of a normal life.
Another fact : Faith, after the marriage, moved to Eldoret, and now are 4 years that her coach is Patrick Sang, who follows her in every workout, while Bram Som was her coach sending programs only, because practically never in Kenya.
To look at her PB in both 800m and 5000m as her real value is ridiculous : she ran in all her life (not considering the competition of control in Mumias every year in April) the distance of 800m for 3 times, and always for opening or closing the season. In 2020, when, coming from the motherhood, worked on speed for recovering her muscle strength, ran 3 times 1000m, with a PB on 2'29"15 (better than her 1'57"68). At the beginning of her career, she ran longer distances, with a PB in 3000m of 8'23"55 (2014, when in 1500m her PB was 3'56"98) and in 5000m of 14'31"95 (2015, best seasonal time in 1500m 3'59"32).
To think that her current values are under 1'56", and the possible WR for 3000m and 5000m, is not a dream, but something concrete.
I am amazed there are still so many Chinese from '93 and '97 on the women's 1500 list. Thats 25-30 years ago. We have better shoes and pace lights and better drugs!
Anyway. Yes she is on PEDs. There hasn't been an Olympic medalist or record holder in any event that wasn't on PEDs since at least the 70s maybe even the 60s or before.
Everyone including the Americans. Let’s not be so naive. OAC is the most sus. yet the mods love to delete any comments when we accuse Americans of doping yet entire threads and constant comments of others like Faith, Jacob are fine to leave up even though they never tested positive. Hypocrisy.