David Torrence Stands by His Bernard Lagat Comments

DT is the David Walsh of running.

Your facts have no place in this thread.

Agreed. "I have heard multiple rumors" isn't worth a whit, without evidence. This brings to mind the sub 4 mile run by Eamonn Coghlan, some years ago when he was 40. Coghlan actually quit training for the most part, had to beat himself back into shape, but did run sub 4. So age can be overcome (not in my case however). Lagat on the other hand has consistently trained year in, year out and is in great shape still. I don't have any doubt that he can run a 53 last 400 at his age, but I'd be surprised to see him go sub 13. It also doesn't hurt that he's stayed uninjured and has no appreciable body weight. We will see. I don't know much about DT, so I won't comment on his motives.

looks like the drop off was 06, then something happened in 2010, then after that its the no brainer of the Monaco track....

how many of these sub 3:30's since 06 have been on the Monaco track? then the drop off becomes really obvious

blah blah blah lagats been tested for 20yrs, marion jones never tested positive, nor did lance....i would guarantee that the only way the Big stars get popped is when then dont obey the "rules" like gatlin ducking powell 3 weeks in a row or whatever and boom he is busted. but then he comes back faster than ever but you never see him "ducking" anymore

lagat got popped in 2003, same year over 100 MLB players were dirty

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_named_in_the_Mitchell_Report)

lets see tim montgomery using THG to set the WR in 02 and never tested positive....

here is what was said in the end of the year 02 IAAF news letter

FALSE ACCUSATIONS CAN DAMAGE THE SPORT

With the summer season soon upon us, this is

a period of great optimism as we all look

forward to watching the world’s best athletes

on the biggest stages.

But although I would prefer to write about

today’s athletes, I do also feel that it is

appropriate to comment about recent

allegations made about our sport – and one of

our legends, Carl Lewis.

The sport of athletics has always been honest

and serious about dealing with doping. But of

course, the problem with that approach is

that, even though the actual percentage of

athletes who have tested positive is tiny –

less than 2% of the total tested – our sport

has gained a reputation as a “doping” sport.

In the past, other sports were simply not

testing, and therefore there were no positive

tests and no headlines about them. I think the

turning point was the 1998 Tour de France –

and the big repercussions of that scandal,

which led to the establishment of WADA. In

the last few years, it has emerged that there

is doping in all sports.

But nevertheless, athletics still seems to be

singled out for special attention and the

recent Carl Lewis “case” is a perfect example.

This story was caused by revelations from a

former USOC anti-doping official, Wade

Exum, regarding an alleged cover up by the

USOC of a number of doping cases in the

period from 1988-2000. The big story was

about Carl Lewis and some other athletes

who tested positive at the US Olympic Trials

in July 1988, but who were subsequently

selected for the US Olympic Team for Seoul

and competed at the Olympic Games later

that year.

But what actually happened in 1988?

The IAAF has now investigated the matter

thoroughly by reviewing the relevant

documents from 1988. We found that,

although the names of the athletes were not

disclosed, the IAAF had been informed that

there had been 8 positive findings at the US

Olympic Trials in athletics, for ephedrine and

ephedrine-related compounds in low

concentration. Yet the IAAF Medical

Committee felt satisfied on the basis of the

information received that the cases had been

properly concluded by the USOC as

“negative cases” in accordance with rules

and regulations in place at the time. So,

rightly, no further action was taken.

For this reason, the athletes concerned who

achieved the necessary qualification

performances at the 1988 US Olympic Trials

and who went on to compete at the Olympic

Games in Seoul were eligible to do so in

accordance with IAAF Rules.

So in summary, Carl Lewis, and those other

athletes were perfectly entitled to be in Seoul

after all. Let us hope that the Media will start

to focus on athletics today, and the fantastic

season to come.

Lamine Diack, IAAF President

lagat was someone in their mind just like bolt or the many years of the "clean cause they are so nice" kenyan image. if your stars are dirty then the sport looks like a joke, so you cover up and do "false injuries" or "illnesses"

then these protected stars can do as they please to a certain level or in bolts case no level during the big shows for ratings.

if you speak out against the protected stars you are labeled a "hater" or "racist", and just like lance people defend till the bitter end, then after the truth comes out 'OH HOW COULD THEY!!!!" "NIKE HAD TO HAVE KNOWN!!!" so nike comes out cuts ties, says they didnt know anything and moves on. only sheep will believe lagat is running faster times than he did in college as an OLD MAN, but regina that was sooooo obvious, lagat is such a nice guy but the chinese woman baaaaad total cheats, lagat has had the same coach but dibaba is missing meets with toe injuries and has a sketch coach she is soooooo dirty

for those who think paula, farah and lagat are clean and all these others are dirty, ask yourself why are these "clean" and the others dirty? well duh the media has down their job. they give you the stars they WANT and you worship them, and do the lowly sacrificial lambs to keep you guys happy about a clean sport.

my prediction is DT gets blackballed for speaking out, he gets threatened, maybe they sabotage him with a fake PED bust, or "86" him from meets and he retires. one more thing to think about, how is it gatlin is running faster and a NIKE athlete again and tyson is running 10.20s and already forgotten? and we still dont know what he got busted with, some cover up and he was vague about it all and did the classic "i was framed" "i trusted the wrong person" blah blah blah, gets a reduced ban and runs slower than ever, whats up with that

A lot of falsehoods in your post, brother.

David Torrence, 17 in 2003. Sees Kenyan Lagat's leaked A sample news. Like an immature 17 year old he rants and rants and calls Kenyans scumbags. He's 17, we get it. He then goes to college. He struggles academically and cannot compete. Struggles a lot.

In 2013 Cook retires and he wanders about. He doesn't join Albert, or Jerry, or even team up with other Hoka One guys, he heads to Jama Aden. He pipes up supporting "look at me, look at me" Montanyo in this 2015 article.

http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/just-in/2016-03-29/once-doper-always-doper-olympic-runner-denounces-2nd-chance

It's 2016 and he has his moment in the sun as he brags about being a Jama Aden informant. Well, he showed them how to use Google maps. Yes, they were Google maps virgins.

http://www.flotrack.org/article/42925-how-david-torrence-assisted-in-the-jama-aden-drug-bust

Then as the OTs close he rants publicly. His band of B/C-list runners are supposedly behind him in support, thanking him for speaking up. Speaking up about something that happened when he was 17 and some of them were 12. Were 10.

Bernard Lagat @ 22 years old enrolled at WSU in 1996 and David Torrence is 11 years old. Three years later, Bernard Lagat runs 3:30 and sets the collegiate best over 1500m. David Torrence is 14 and starting high school.

Fast forward to 2007. Torrence is a junior at Cal. NCAA 1500 heats. He runs 3:43.43 for 9th in his heat. The 8th place in front of him, Kurt Benninger, qualifies for the final in 3:43.34. Lopez Lomong and Vincent Rono take top spots in their respective heats. They share a similar origin with Lagat.

The best part about this result is seen below. Junior David Torrence doesn't advance to the final. It's ok, he's young at 22 years old. Atop the results we see the name of Bernard Lagat, both the 25 year old in 1999 and 31 year old in 2005. Same coach, James Li of WSU, cheering his athlete on. The same coach who will cheer his athlete on in Rio 2016 as he is 41 years old.

TALENT. PURE TALENT. Oh yeah, and obviously Lagat came over to WSU as a 22 year old with a sophisticate doping program. Showed it to James Li and James Li was like, "Of course let's dope."

Good times David, good times.

Event 5 Men 1500 Meter Run

================================================================

2 Heats. Advance top 4 from each heat plus next best 4 times.

American: 3:29.30 8/28/2005 Bernard Lagat, Nike

College Best: 3:30.56 8/11/1999 Bernard Lagat, Washington S

NCAA Meet: 3:35.30 6/6/1981 Sydney Maree, Villanova

Hornet Stad: 3:35.90 7/16/2000 Gabe Jennings, Stanford

Name Year School Prelims

================================================================

Heat 1

1 Lopez Lomong SO Northern Arizona 3:42.00Q

2 Garrett Heath SO Stanford 3:44.30Q

3 Pablo Solares SR Rice 3:44.42Q

4 Max Smith JR Providence 3:44.54Q

5 Peter vanderWesthuizen JR Nebraska 3:45.05

6 Dorian Ulrey FR Northern Iowa 3:45.06

7 Ricky Barnes SR Irvine 3:45.37

8 Michael McGrath JR Oregon 3:46.18

9 Andrew Acosta FR Oregon 3:46.83

10 Sam Bair JR Pittsburgh 3:47.25

11 Billy Berlin SO Virginia Tech 3:47.50

12 Darren Brown JR Texas 3:47.62

13 Mike Woods JR Michigan 3:51.41

14 John Richardson JR Kentucky 3:58.75

Heat 2

1 Vincent Rono SR South Alabama 3:41.77Q

2 Russell Brown JR Stanford 3:42.01Q

3 Leonel Manzano JR Texas 3:42.13Q

4 Stephen Pifer SR Colorado 3:42.29Q

5 Ben True JR Dartmouth 3:42.68q

6 Craig Miller FR Wisconsin 3:42.78q

7 Erik Stanley JR Texas 3:43.30q

8 Kurt Benninger SR Notre Dame 3:43.34q

9 David Torrence JR California 3:43.43

"I agree with Spencer"

People knew with a reasonable certitude that Lance, Jones, etc. were involved in doping because of their associations and because disgruntled people in the know blew the whistle. Not at all the case with what is going on here with Torrence's whining about Lagat.

Here's some corrections:

Lance Armstrong DID test positive.

Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, etc. were found out retroactively. Lagat has not.

The MLB is not comparable to the IAAF in their approach towards PED's.

Lagat never associated with the likes of Conte, Ferrari, or Aden.

Lastly, you say that people think Lagat is "clean because he is nice." But the problem is that people confuse an athlete's public image with the actual person. Armstrong, Jones, etc. were clearly identifiable narcissists, pathological liars, and we know now that they were basically psychopaths. The same cannot be said of Bolt or Lagat. Lagat's a genuinely nice guy who encourages his fellow competitors and has at times stated that it is his goal to bring the USA back to the top level of the sport, which he has.

No one cares about his running fast times at age 41 or being nice. We do care about his cheating since his 20's and the cover ups. Dave Torrance knows what he is talking about and it's a shame people defend a man like Lagat and have no real clue what you're talking about.

A good example is Lance, because for years people would of put their lives on the line for him saying he was clean. Then the truth came out is, he was dirty and and all his real competitors knew it the entire time. Did they say anything? Well, they tried and when they did they got the same reaction you are giving DT.

I would be very carful defending Lagat if I was you! It's sick how bad he has cheated. The evidence is there, it's just going to take time to get everything to the surface. This is a tricky situation and needs to be handled correct with all the cover ups involved. DT at this point of his career has had it with the BS and did the right thing. The truly sad part is how you react to DT for speaking up. This is why no one wants to tell others what then know and heard. I myself know the stories, but what wold you like me to do with them? Post them on the lestrun mb's? Imagine I gave you names on here. That would just cause a mess of people calling BS. On the other hand, I would love to have a conversation with the right people, but who would that be? Please enlighten me.

If the "evidence is there", then present it for everyone to see and evaluate for themselves. if not, STFU.

Lance is a bad comparison.

Lance Armstrong's teammates and competitors didn't out him because they were trying to cheat too, and those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Tyler Hamilton and a couple others eventually were remorseful and/or angered when they were on the losing side of the doping equation while Lance got off Scott free. Where is Lagat's Tyler Hamilton? Who came up with the money to run the massively expensive mobile doping clinic? Where are the doctors that followed Lagat around from event to even? You say, "the evidence is there," but you can't even tell us what kind of evidence it is. The only "evidence" I have heard is the botched A-sample, and that has been dispelled I don't know how many times. It's a question of chemistry, not of your opinion, so find something new or get your head out of the sand.

This is exactly what I mean, you call BS and know nothing. DT's source is the "Tyler Hamilton" of Lagat. Time will tell my friend!

Why do think this hasn't been presented to correct people. Do you think the only way to show evidence is on Letsrun haha. WADA, USADA and IOC knows more about this then thou could even imagine.

Lagat is laughing all the way to the bank, while the gullible fools continue to believe.

.nope.dope. wrote:

Lagat is laughing all the way to the bank, while the gullible fools continue to believe.

Best reply in this entire thread!!!!!!!!!!

East of LA wrote:

I appreciate David speaking up. Everyone has heard the rumors forever. Now at 41 he is continuing to laugh at the system.

Torrence is not speaking up.

He is contributing to the rumors.

The rumors may very well be true, but they are still rumors.

And Torrence doesn't seem to have any additional inside info that any of us have.

100%inTheKnow wrote:

A good example is Lance, because for years people would of put their lives on the line for him saying he was clean. Then the truth came out is, he was dirty and and all his real competitors knew it the entire time. Did they say anything? Well, they tried and when they did they got the same reaction you are giving DT.

This is not true at all. Lance had competitors for years that came out against him with actual substantive information/testimonies, not just exemplifying how uninformed they are about the results of a 13 year-old test, which is what DT is doing.

The people who took down Lance had substance. If Lagat is dirty then I want him taken down too, and I want substance to do it, not the garbage DT is spewing.

normalcy wrote:

100%inTheKnow wrote:

A good example is Lance, because for years people would of put their lives on the line for him saying he was clean. Then the truth came out is, he was dirty and and all his real competitors knew it the entire time. Did they say anything? Well, they tried and when they did they got the same reaction you are giving DT.

This is not true at all. Lance had competitors for years that came out against him with actual substantive information/testimonies, not just exemplifying how uninformed they are about the results of a 13 year-old test, which is what DT is doing.

The people who took down Lance had substance. If Lagat is dirty then I want him taken down too, and I want substance to do it, not the garbage DT is spewing.

Why do you think its "garbage"? You have a lot to learn about professional sports if you think this. Just because DT doesn't tell everything in an interview dose not mean they are not working with the right people to get the Lagat info.

normalcy wrote:

100%inTheKnow wrote:

A good example is Lance, because for years people would of put their lives on the line for him saying he was clean. Then the truth came out is, he was dirty and and all his real competitors knew it the entire time. Did they say anything? Well, they tried and when they did they got the same reaction you are giving DT.

This is not true at all. Lance had competitors for years that came out against him with actual substantive information/testimonies, not just exemplifying how uninformed they are about the results of a 13 year-old test, which is what DT is doing.

The people who took down Lance had substance. If Lagat is dirty then I want him taken down too, and I want substance to do it, not the garbage DT is spewing.

Do you work for WADA? Because thats the only way you will get the full story.

LAPrnr45 wrote:

normalcy wrote:

This is not true at all. Lance had competitors for years that came out against him with actual substantive information/testimonies, not just exemplifying how uninformed they are about the results of a 13 year-old test, which is what DT is doing.

The people who took down Lance had substance. If Lagat is dirty then I want him taken down too, and I want substance to do it, not the garbage DT is spewing.

Why do you think its "garbage"? You have a lot to learn about professional sports if you think this. Just because DT doesn't tell everything in an interview dose not mean they are not working with the right people to get the Lagat info.

Because it is garbage. If he is working with the right people to get the Lagat info, then that is not garbage. They are two separate interactions. Spouting a lack of knowledge about a 13 year old test is garbage, and I don't know why you would argue otherwise.