I get tired on most runs. During the rest of the day, though, I am tired, but have felt worse. Thus, do I just need to get through this hot/humid spell in my marathon training, or am I showing signs of burnout? In the last few weeks, my mileage has been 50, 56, 57, 50...and this week (I hope) will be 59. I say "I hope" because that Sat. 15-miler seems like a very tall task at this point.
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This summer has been hotter than last summer--and clearly more humid--and I have not been able to do much in terms of long runs and high-intensity training. Those are the two virtually impossible things right now: long runs and high intensity workouts (i.e. VO2 max). I cannot break 7:30 pace (overall) on anything 8 miles or longer. I can do brief LT or slightly sub-LT work (3 or 4 miles), but cannot (at all) hit my splits in VO2 max intervals.
I get tired on most runs. During the rest of the day, though, I am tired, but have felt worse. Thus, do I just need to get through this hot/humid spell in my marathon training, or am I showing signs of burnout? In the last few weeks, my mileage has been 50, 56, 57, 50...and this week (I hope) will be 59. I say "I hope" because that Sat. 15-miler seems like a very tall task at this point. -
it is the weather.
some days I hit 25+ miles on two runs
then a few days later I will struggle to get 8.
the only thing I have discovered:
1) run 2 a days - that way you don't have to go as far
2) workouts - don't plan on much here - if I do one, I expect it to be slower
3) take some days off - if the dew pt is getting close to 75, might be better to just not run
4) replace those really high dew pt days with some other type of training
even walking will work...but also you could swim, bike... -
Agreed, it's the weather. I also couldn't hit my usual paces for a couple of weeks and then it rained one day and cooled down by about 15 degrees right before my run. I couldn't believe the difference; paces dead on with seemingly little effort.
I've been doing my quality work inside on the treadmill since then. Still outside for easy stuff where I don't care about pace.
Do your 15 miler very early in the morning, like right at sunrise, and it should be fine. Take a nap afterward to catch up on lost sleep if you need to. -
Thanks, jerry.
The dew points have been 71 or 72, but lately I have seen some 74s. Last year, the dew points were mostly in the mid/upper 60s, and I even saw a 58 or 59 once in a while.
I come home completely soaked.
What do you do for hydration? In the past, I never carried anything for anything under 10 miles. Now, I an toting water (or a water/Vitamin Water mix) for anything 8 miles or longer. Interestingly, I did a waterless little four-miler yesterday afternoon (heat index of 95-97), and was able to bang out 7:05, 6:49, 6:31, and 6:22. The mornings, though, have been really bad--this morning, I felt awful in an 8-miler, and struggled...7:33 pace. -
heat adjustment wrote:
Agreed, it's the weather. I also couldn't hit my usual paces for a couple of weeks and then it rained one day and cooled down by about 15 degrees right before my run. I couldn't believe the difference; paces dead on with seemingly little effort.
I've been doing my quality work inside on the treadmill since then. Still outside for easy stuff where I don't care about pace.
Do your 15 miler very early in the morning, like right at sunrise, and it should be fine. Take a nap afterward to catch up on lost sleep if you need to.
Thanks...good advice.
I do not have a treadmill option, though. All of my work is outside. -
This weather is horrible. To make it worse, I am trying to get back to decent fitness after struggling with injuries for last 2 years. The heat is much more tolerable when you are in better shape.
Several weeks ago I was struggling to finish 6 miles runs and questioned if I should go the Dr for blood tests. I had to remind myself that I was not acclimated and hung with it. I am still slower on my runs but I can at least finish a 7 or 8 miler and not feel like I am going to die. And there were a couple mild days where I was able to complete a run with a couple of sub 7 pace miles at the end. Those days are rare but a nice reminder that even those horrible, hot and humid days are increasing my fitness. -
"Horrible" is the right word, joho. Some say heat improves one's fitness, but I see it as just limiting what I can do. Cannot do long runs or high-intensity intervals.
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I've been injured, so I have not been running this summer, but I do coach a group of people here in Central Florida. Even the better runners I know, including someone who ran OT in the marathon, are struggling to put together decent workouts.
I think the key is to try to achieve consistent splits, even if they are slow, and to focus on perceived effort rather than focusing on your watch. When the weather breaks, you will see huge jumps. -
Just do it.
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Smoove wrote:
I think the key is to try to achieve consistent splits, even if they are slow, and to focus on perceived effort rather than focusing on your watch. When the weather breaks, you will see huge jumps.
I definitely believe that perceived effort works for aerobic development, and that heat helps there, but I suspect that muscle adaptation is limited because you're not working the legs the same way. I wonder if some extra strength training during the hottest part of the year might help offset that? Assuming that I'm correct of course. We need to commission a study. -
I remember when I would bust my balls and get pretty fit during the summer when the weather was hot and humid. It was tough but once the fall weather rolled around the running was so easy. Tough it out and you will see the rewards come October.
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Thanks, guys...
I always see rewards in October/November. Perhaps they will be extra-special rewards this year?
Yes, I need to tough it out. -
I am overweight and planned on using the summer to get in shape. It's been rough. The dewpoint has been consistently in the 70's where I'm at, sometimes approaching 80, so after five miles, I'm pretty much done. My guess is it's the weather. Even when I'm in shape, I usually drag ass all summer and then start drilling runs once the temperature lowers and the dewpoint gets more manageable around September.
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Man, I needed this thread. My running has sucked the last couple weeks - runs in my "recovery run" pace range with almost "marathon pace" heart rate - and I've been driving myself crazy worrying about it. I'll try to chill and wait for it to cool TF down a bit.
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outsiderunner wrote:
This summer has been hotter than last summer--and clearly more humid--and I have not been able to do much in terms of long runs and high-intensity training. Those are the two virtually impossible things right now: long runs and high intensity workouts (i.e. VO2 max). I cannot break 7:30 pace (overall) on anything 8 miles or longer. I can do brief LT or slightly sub-LT work (3 or 4 miles), but cannot (at all) hit my splits in VO2 max intervals.
I get tired on most runs. During the rest of the day, though, I am tired, but have felt worse. Thus, do I just need to get through this hot/humid spell in my marathon training, or am I showing signs of burnout? In the last few weeks, my mileage has been 50, 56, 57, 50...and this week (I hope) will be 59. I say "I hope" because that Sat. 15-miler seems like a very tall task at this point.
No wonder you feel burned out and want to quit.
I have a lot to say on the subject but I am running short on time.
I sweat more than anyone I know, even when it isn't hot out. I live in the south and the dew point was 78 this morning. I have learned a thing or two about heat the hard way. 70 degree dew points sound wonderful right now. Typically I run/race well during the spring, feel like quitting running completely every single summer, then run my best times of the year in the fall.
This summer started out like so many other summers but I have really committed and gotten serious about managing the heat. The result has been that I've had enjoyed my running and felt far less spent the past few weeks.
Here's what I do:
-Don't start any run later than 6am if you run in the morning. 5:30am is better.
-Don't start any run in the afternoon until 30 min before sundown when running in the afternoon.
-Stop every 10-15 min to drink water (anywhere, any way) if "hot" out. Stopping on a run will not hurt you.
-Stop measuring courses and timing runs! Leave your watch at home! Your body doesn't know pace, it knows effort. Stop trying to teach it pace!!!
-Stay out of the sun when running. Change routes, run way off in the grass on the shoulder of the road, run on trails, whatever it takes
-Nuuns are your friend. Google if necessary
-Wear sunglasses, sweat band, carry a towel with you - anything to get the sweat off. Put your head under a fountain during a water stop.
-Doubles are your friend if you're training for races lasting less than 90 min (you say you're training for the marathon.)
-Sleep well at night (this is a big one)
One question:
Not to be too critical but you do not need Vo2 workouts for the marathon. Not sure you really even need these workouts if you are racing 30 min races. The worst thing you can do is do a timed Vo2 workout in the summer (when you don't need them at all - much less for a marathon and this time of year).
I know you don't know me and you probably won't take my advice, but I know you.....because I used to be just like you. -
heat attack 1 wrote:
outsiderunner wrote:
This summer has been hotter than last summer--and clearly more humid--and I have not been able to do much in terms of long runs and high-intensity training. Those are the two virtually impossible things right now: long runs and high intensity workouts (i.e. VO2 max). I cannot break 7:30 pace (overall) on anything 8 miles or longer. I can do brief LT or slightly sub-LT work (3 or 4 miles), but cannot (at all) hit my splits in VO2 max intervals.
I get tired on most runs. During the rest of the day, though, I am tired, but have felt worse. Thus, do I just need to get through this hot/humid spell in my marathon training, or am I showing signs of burnout? In the last few weeks, my mileage has been 50, 56, 57, 50...and this week (I hope) will be 59. I say "I hope" because that Sat. 15-miler seems like a very tall task at this point.
No wonder you feel burned out and want to quit.
I have a lot to say on the subject but I am running short on time.
I sweat more than anyone I know, even when it isn't hot out. I live in the south and the dew point was 78 this morning. I have learned a thing or two about heat the hard way. 70 degree dew points sound wonderful right now. Typically I run/race well during the spring, feel like quitting running completely every single summer, then run my best times of the year in the fall.
This summer started out like so many other summers but I have really committed and gotten serious about managing the heat. The result has been that I've had enjoyed my running and felt far less spent the past few weeks.
Here's what I do:
-Don't start any run later than 6am if you run in the morning. 5:30am is better.
-Don't start any run in the afternoon until 30 min before sundown when running in the afternoon.
-Stop every 10-15 min to drink water (anywhere, any way) if "hot" out. Stopping on a run will not hurt you.
-Stop measuring courses and timing runs! Leave your watch at home! Your body doesn't know pace, it knows effort. Stop trying to teach it pace!!!
-Stay out of the sun when running. Change routes, run way off in the grass on the shoulder of the road, run on trails, whatever it takes
-Nuuns are your friend. Google if necessary
-Wear sunglasses, sweat band, carry a towel with you - anything to get the sweat off. Put your head under a fountain during a water stop.
-Doubles are your friend if you're training for races lasting less than 90 min (you say you're training for the marathon.)
-Sleep well at night (this is a big one)
One question:
Not to be too critical but you do not need Vo2 workouts for the marathon. Not sure you really even need these workouts if you are racing 30 min races. The worst thing you can do is do a timed Vo2 workout in the summer (when you don't need them at all - much less for a marathon and this time of year).
I know you don't know me and you probably won't take my advice, but I know you.....because I used to be just like you.
I agree with what you have said here, and will make an efort to get out earlier in the morning. It is hard for me because I am not a good sleeper.
My coach likes doing some VO2 max stuff in the earlier portion of marathon training. Personally, I agree with you. It would not seem to be of much importance in regard to the marathon. What bothers me most is having so much trouble with the long runs. As we all know, weekly mileage and long runs are the bread and butter of marathon training.
All the best to you... -
quote]outsiderunner wrote:
heat attack 1 wrote:
outsiderunner wrote:
This summer has been hotter than last summer--and clearly more humid--and I have not been able to do much in terms of long runs and high-intensity training. Those are the two virtually impossible things right now: long runs and high intensity workouts (i.e. VO2 max). I cannot break 7:30 pace (overall) on anything 8 miles or longer. I can do brief LT or slightly sub-LT work (3 or 4 miles), but cannot (at all) hit my splits in VO2 max intervals.
I get tired on most runs. During the rest of the day, though, I am tired, but have felt worse. Thus, do I just need to get through this hot/humid spell in my marathon training, or am I showing signs of burnout? In the last few weeks, my mileage has been 50, 56, 57, 50...and this week (I hope) will be 59. I say "I hope" because that Sat. 15-miler seems like a very tall task at this point.
No wonder you feel burned out and want to quit.
I have a lot to say on the subject but I am running short on time.
I sweat more than anyone I know, even when it isn't hot out. I live in the south and the dew point was 78 this morning. I have learned a thing or two about heat the hard way. 70 degree dew points sound wonderful right now. Typically I run/race well during the spring, feel like quitting running completely every single summer, then run my best times of the year in the fall.
This summer started out like so many other summers but I have really committed and gotten serious about managing the heat. The result has been that I've had enjoyed my running and felt far less spent the past few weeks.
Here's what I do:
-Don't start any run later than 6am if you run in the morning. 5:30am is better.
-Don't start any run in the afternoon until 30 min before sundown when running in the afternoon.
-Stop every 10-15 min to drink water (anywhere, any way) if "hot" out. Stopping on a run will not hurt you.
-Stop measuring courses and timing runs! Leave your watch at home! Your body doesn't know pace, it knows effort. Stop trying to teach it pace!!!
-Stay out of the sun when running. Change routes, run way off in the grass on the shoulder of the road, run on trails, whatever it takes
-Nuuns are your friend. Google if necessary
-Wear sunglasses, sweat band, carry a towel with you - anything to get the sweat off. Put your head under a fountain during a water stop.
-Doubles are your friend if you're training for races lasting less than 90 min (you say you're training for the marathon.)
-Sleep well at night (this is a big one)
One question:
Not to be too critical but you do not need Vo2 workouts for the marathon. Not sure you really even need these workouts if you are racing 30 min races. The worst thing you can do is do a timed Vo2 workout in the summer (when you don't need them at all - much less for a marathon and this time of year).
I know you don't know me and you probably won't take my advice, but I know you.....because I used to be just like you.
I agree with what you have said here, and will make an efort to get out earlier in the morning. It is hard for me because I am not a good sleeper.
My coach likes doing some VO2 max stuff in the earlier portion of marathon training. Personally, I agree with you. It would not seem to be of much importance in regard to the marathon. What bothers me most is having so much trouble with the long runs. As we all know, weekly mileage and long runs are the bread and butter of marathon training.
All the best to you...[/quote]
Sure thing. When is your marathon? -
I have qualified for NYC 2016. The race is on November 6th.
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Well congrats! You have three months. I think that you could probably afford to slow down your long run if it feels overbearing. Split it into two runs in one day if you must.
Stash water throughout the (shaded) route. I can't say it enough - complete the run early!!! An 8am start is way too late.
If you're having trouble sleeping at night order a $7 bottle of 1200mg Tart Cherry tablets. I'd Google that too if I were you. Then you can see the benefits tart cherries have to your sleeping, recovery, and overall health. I would recommend the juice you buy at the store but it has a lot of calories. I too had a hard time sleeping and these things did the trick for me. -
Thanks!
I have organic tart cherry juice in the house, but I forget to drink it in summer, as I drink mostly water right now. Did not know it is good for sleeping.
Last time out on the 15-miler, I did exactly what you have described. We did 8, paused to refuel (water and gels), and then did 7. Will look to do that again. Hopefully, my long run partner will be available this weekend. That perhaps made the most difference--having somone to run with.
