If Russia can hide 580 positives are you naive enough to think that USA is clean?

Funny NOT funny wrote:

It is humorous how Americans believe that doping is only done by foreigners.

False premise.

Please explain.

Do you not believe that athletes like Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong had help in systematic doping?

Funny NOT funny wrote:

It is humorous how Americans believe that doping is only done by foreigners.

It's humorous how anybody believes that any big-time sport, including track and distance running specifically, is anything but a complete and utter fraud.

The performances you watch and cheer are completely synthetic. All of it.

Do you believe that 100% of US OLYMPIANS are dirty?

I personally know that is false.

I would estimate that between USADA and USATF there are at least 50 track and field athletes a year that are granted a pass or given minor slaps on the wrists that we never hear of.

100%?? wrote:

Do you believe that 100% of US OLYMPIANS are dirty?

I personally know that is false.

I dont personally know that is false, because I myself am not an olympian.

However, of the three Olympians I know well, I would say one of them (a Bobsledder) I would bet my life savings is clean. A second (a shotputter) I would bet maybe half my life savings is clean. The third (5000m runner) I wouldn't bet very much at all.

Based on event, you would think I'd have more doubts about the shotputter, but I honestly think he is clean. I've had too many conversations and shared too much time in the gym with him to think he was doping. He is just way too depressed every time he finds out somebody he competed against got caught after the fact doping. I don't think that seems like the reaction of a doper.

The Bobsledder is the most upstanding person I know, there is no way she'd dope.

The 5000m runner is a win at all costs kind of girl and she has done some things I know about to make me have some doubt on her morals.

Point is, I have a tiny bit of insight and honestly believe we have both clean and dirty American olympians.

I would agree. ^ Except I don't think many, if any, even get caught in the first place. There have been countless doctors and lab techs that have confirmed the drugs and doping techniques are always at least one step ahead of the tests. I think plenty of athletes are cheating and passing drug tests with ease because they are using the latest techniques.

overall i think USa has a serious ped problem,not just at elite leval,but also in the top ncaa leval as well.how else would you explain the ridiculous improvements some athletes make when they go to college?it cant just be a change of diet,and scientific training.some high schoolers are on the juice too,if they can get it.almost all top american sprinters , a great many field athletes,and a sizeable number of middle and long distance runners are on something,and its not just good diet,and vitamins.doping in the US wouldnt be as systematic as in russia,except for pro football where theyre all on it.

Russia got banned. They didn't hide them.

Why do you think all Americans believe the same thing?

One Step Ahead wrote:

I would agree. ^ Except I don't think many, if any, even get caught in the first place. There have been countless doctors and lab techs that have confirmed the drugs and doping techniques are always at least one step ahead of the tests. I think plenty of athletes are cheating and passing drug tests with ease because they are using the latest techniques.

Balco was a rare glimpse, where an undetectable substance was used, until Trevor Graham (whether from a sense of right/wrong or a desire to screw people over) sent in the syringe with traces of it. They developed a test in secret, ready to catch anybody using it. However, they didn't catch *that* many people on it. And that was how many people chose to dope while believing they couldn't be caught.

We also know now that some athletes then were offered "the clear" but chose not to take it.

Point is, there are at least *some* clean athletes. Is that 10% or 90%? My guess is somewhere in the middle, but it is a guess based on not too much, we only know there is very strong evidence there are at least a few who can reach elite level without doping.

Torta Con Al Pastor wrote:

Russia got banned. They didn't hide them.

Why do you think all Americans believe the same thing?

Where have you been? They hid at least 580. That is what the investigation discovered.

If they hid them, they would not be banned.

And we would not be talking about it.

Torta Con Al Pastor wrote:

If they hid them, they would not be banned.

Wrong. Did you read the report? They were banned for cheating. Then a report was done that found an ADDITIONAL 580 unreported positives.

If they found them, they were not hidden.

This is how it is in Putin's Russia.

http://declanhill.com/russian-doping-investigation/

http://declanhill.com/sports-russian-mafia/

Declan Hill is an expert in sports corruption. He even got a Oxford PhD research on how to fix football matches.

His twitter: Sadly, Russian sport is (a) blood-strewn, mafia-laden field where the good men die like dogs and the pimps run free.

Biggest difference between USA and Russia that I think most of you who have been raised in freedom and capitalism cannot grasp is that Russia is not a free country, it's state controlled, chauvinistic country not much different from their predecessor Soviet Union. For a country where all the media is controlled and people are constantly being fed with lies and propaganda about external enemies it is crucial to render them stronger than their so called "enemies". For such a political system as one in Russia sports are just another tool for feeding masses with propaganda and this means that the entire sports system is run by government just like it was 50 years ago in USSR.

With USA it's much different. USA is a proud but it's not chauvinistic country so they don't need a state controlled doping system to render them great. Also your college and university sports system is so much ahead both in financial and organizational terms of that in the Russia so by default it's producing much more talented people just like that. I was born in Soviet Union and have lived through and have seen all this shit happening around me as have my parents and grandparents but thankfully my country has gained independence and I am no more forced to take part into this

meat mincer machine.

Mama knows best wrote:

Torta Con Al Pastor wrote:

If they hid them, they would not be banned.

Wrong. Did you read the report? They were banned for cheating. Then a report was done that found an ADDITIONAL 580 unreported positives.

So you admit your own stupidity?

I'm not naive enough to believe there is no doping administered by USA teams, however, from what I have seen it would be done on a more privateer basis,

See, I've competed (and continue to compete) for the USA at an international level in an Olympic sport. I've spent many years on the national team. I've lived at the Olympic Training Center. I've competed in major international events in both the USA and Russia.

It's my observation that the Russians, and other European countries are just better organized. The events are run better, the structure within most sports federations is better, there are more coaches and trainers involved, and there is just more national pride. Now, I'm not saying that none of these things exist in the US, it's just that for most sports it's on a w hole different level. And it's for those reasons, that I doubt, strongly doubt, that there is any sort of systemized doping happening in the United States which has any parallel to Eastern Europe. Perhaps things were different in the past, but not recently.

I know I'll get hell for this, but the USOC is a largely self serving organization. Athletes well being and performance are not very high up in the priority list. Access to even legal tools at the Training center can be hard to come by. Vo2max/lactate texting and the like don't even happen there very often. I just see a lot of selfishness and wasted resources. I don't see a lot of cohesiveness from the top down. What I've seen, in most sports, is a bunch of talented and enthusiastic privateers. I don't even see training schedules put in place which are very effective. I don't see resources being used. I don't see basic steps being taken. And this is why I doubt much large scale doping exists in the states. Sure, plenty of athlete here dope, it's more small groups and individuals. There is just such a contrast to Russia and much of Europe, go to a sporting event in Russia and just see how damn organized they are, and every details is attended to. There is enormous pride there, though that unfortunately also includes doping.