Mile Repeat Rest

Big Rudy wrote:

what do people think is the correct rest for a mile repeat workout is? I'm looking at doing 5 at approx 5k pace (4:45).

You need a recovery that is necessary to hold the pace that you want. If you can achieve this with 4 minutes, fine. If you can do it with 3 minutes, do it. If you are at altitude, you'll need more recovery.

What is the purpose of the workout?

I'm doing the mile repeats to get ready for XC Nationals 12k. I've been doing mostly mileage (120-150) since early december. Last week I did 6x800 w/ 2min rest in 2:19, 2:18, 2:17, 2:16, 2:15, 2:13. I figure I'll start out at 4:45 w/3min rest and go from there. Thanks.

Big Rudy wrote:

I'm doing the mile repeats to get ready for XC Nationals 12k. I've been doing mostly mileage (120-150) since early december. Last week I did 6x800 w/ 2min rest in 2:19, 2:18, 2:17, 2:16, 2:15, 2:13. I figure I'll start out at 4:45 w/3min rest and go from there. Thanks.

The pace will be more important than the recovery. If you don't hit the mark on # 2, increase the recovery.

Good luck, the course is soggy this week. Hopefully the rain stops and the course firms a bit.

i find that a 400 jog works well

Well the mile repeats started out well, but I didn't end up finishing the workout. I ran the first one in 4:46 after going through the 1/2 in 2:21 (oops). I ran the next two in 4:43 and was feeling alright. Three minute rests on all of them. I started out number 4 alright, but I think the high mileage week started catching up with me. Also I was running on a 160m track and the corners were sucking big time. I ran 4:48. I was stubborn and kept with the three minutes after that one. I went through the 1/2 in 2:24 and wasn't feeling too hot. I called it a day and cooled down. I look back and although was feeling well that day I had done 25 miles the day before (10 am, 15 pm). I ran easy this weekend and didn't do a long run. Hopefully I can try it again Wednesday this week.

Others on the board will probably criticize your decisions, either for training too hard or being a wuss for dropping out so I'll just give you some encouraging words: Good luck at nationals. I admire anyone who can consistently run that kind of mileage. If it doesn't pay off this time, it will later.

I think that you are seeing one of the needs for a coach. Someone that can see the bigger picture. Runners get caught up on side items and string workouts together that need some time between them. At least get another set of eyes on your schedule.

Jack Daniels recommends a rest interval of up to 90%... meaning that if you're running the repeats in 4:45, you should rest about 4:00 between each. Maybe you just didn't give yourself enough rest.

Wassabuff, Thanks for the advice. That has definetly been a problem for me. I have a B.A in exercise physiology so I have the technical background to coach myself, but it's hard for one to be objective about their own training. I've found that I do best when I bounce ideas off of others. My biggest problem is a lack of patience in training. Sometimes I feel if I'm not running 140 miles every week I'm falling behind. I fell into that trap a couple years ago when I ran 12 120+ mile weeks in a row. I was done for the season by middle of June. Live and learn. The message board has been very helpful, but people have to remember two things when an elite runner says they train 150 miles a week. A)They don't have to go to work, they don't have to go to school. B) They do take easy weeks.

BTW, after some easy running this weekend, I ran 20x400 w/ 25 secs rest last night. I ran 69-71 for the workout and it felt really good. I had a nice rythem. Hopefully I can pull out a top 20 at XC Nationals. Thanks again for all the help.

No problem. I now give advise that I wish I had followed.

I had asked you for the purpose of your workout. I think that each workout should be designed around a goal. If someone asks you "Why are you doing it that way?" , do you have an answer other than "Ole so & so does it, so I thought I would do it also."?

You probably have a good reason for the miles, but the quarters?

Before you were born, we heard that Shorter ran 6 X mile @4:29.4 w/4 m. recovery on the roads by the "res", so we set out to beat his time. We did it, but it was a crazy reason to run a workout and it hurt like hell.

"BTW, after some easy running this weekend, I ran 20x400 w/ 25 secs rest last night. I ran 69-71 for the workout and it felt really good. I had a nice rythem. Hopefully I can pull out a top 20 at XC Nationals. Thanks again for all the help."

That is a far more excrutiating workout than the mile repeats. Your difficulty on those miles was just a fluke. You gotta be fit to turn those 400's over with that short a recovery.

I did get the idea for the 400's from Ronaldo Da Costa. I tried it last summer coming back after a marathon. After a month of just easy running I did this 16x400 twice over the next three weeks and then ran a ten second PR in the 5k (my 5k PR was a little soft though). I just found that this workout worked well for me. When I wear my heart rate monitor I stay right around 168-170 up until the last couple. Even though the pace is faster than threshold, the short rest allows recovery. I've found it's a good transition from the longer continuous tempo runs of base training/early workouts to more Vo2 max workouts. This is the only workout I've really taken from other runners. I pretty much do 5-8mi tempo runs, 13-15mi marathon pace runs, and 4's, 8's, and miles for VO2 max stuff. I try to keep it simple.

Wasabuff wrote:

Before you were born, we heard that Shorter ran 6 X mile @4:29.4 w/4 m. recovery on the roads by the "res", so we set out to beat his time. We did it, but it was a crazy reason to run a workout and it hurt like hell.

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Wasabuf, Was that workout in Boulder and if so, who was "we".

I agree with what you are saying about the reasons for doing workouts - what is the purpose of them? This is often lost in the analysis. Doctors (like ex.physio's) know medicine, but they don't practice on themselves (usually) for the same reasons - an objective opinion can be helpful in order to see the big picture.

That 4.29 works out to about a 27.50 10k - wasn't that approximately Shorter's 10k PB? A better reason for the session (6x 1M at 10k pace), than simply seeing if you can do it (as you have said). Did it help you to run 27.50 or faster?

CY wrote:

Wasabuff wrote:

Before you were born, we heard that Shorter ran 6 X mile @4:29.4 w/4 m. recovery on the roads by the "res", so we set out to beat his time. We did it, but it was a crazy reason to run a workout and it hurt like hell.

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Wasabuf, Was that workout in Boulder and if so, who was "we".

I really don't remember everyone in the workout, but I do remember that there were 4 of us in the lead pack. Ted Casteneda (Steve), Mike Peterson,& John Gregorio. Flanagan may have been there or it was the year before he came to town. That group came back two weeks later and ran 4:28 for the same workout.

It depends on the purpose of the workout. If you are working on your aeorbic capacity (VO2 max) then you should take 3-5mins recovery, in other words, full recovery. Hitting the desired pace should be the main goal. If you are working on your lactic/anaerobic system then you need short recovery (1/2RT). Pace becomes secondary and getting into oxygen debt is what counts. That's my interpretation anyways.

Wasabuff wrote:

CY wrote:

Wasabuff wrote:

Before you were born, we heard that Shorter ran 6 X mile @4:29.4 w/4 m. recovery on the roads by the "res", so we set out to beat his time. We did it, but it was a crazy reason to run a workout and it hurt like hell.

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Wasabuf, Was that workout in Boulder and if so, who was "we".

I really don't remember everyone in the workout, but I do remember that there were 4 of us in the lead pack. Ted Casteneda (Steve), Mike Peterson,& John Gregorio. Flanagan may have been there or it was the year before he came to town. That group came back two weeks later and ran 4:28 for the same workout.

Who was the coach at Colorado at that time?

Big Rudy,

What are your goals? Are you in the US? Will you run CC in Houston?