Western States Endurance 100 Discussion 2016

Sage spends too much time building his celebrity status, spends too much time on social media. Hi is not the champion type capable of giving max focus and turning off his phone and comp in order just to train. No champ personality here. Sorry dude.

I think Walmsley was cooked as he crossed the river, and slipped. His muscles were likely shot before he tried to crossed.

hbh wrote:

Sage spends too much time building his celebrity status, spends too much time on social media. Hi is not the champion type capable of giving max focus and turning off his phone and comp in order just to train. No champ personality here. Sorry dude.

I think he has the potential, the question is will he tap into it? and i mean specially mentally. Maybe that social media thing is ruining all, he got so overconfident about it, and maybe it was because of that celebrity stuff...

He does have the training to do sub 15 tho but something happened.

zzzz wrote:

It will be really interesting to hear from Walmsley after the race. He went off course after the 89.9 aid station, doing an extra 4 miles or so. If you've been in a lost in a trail race scenario (like I have) you'll know it's often not just a matter of turning around and finding the right turn. You have a lot of uncertainty because you're not sure if you should keep going forward, or turn back... did you really miss a turn or is it still up ahead? If you have gone past a turnoff, what's to say you'll see it on the way back? So you stop and walk, and hope someone will tell you which way to go. I wonder if he would have won if he hadn't missed that turn. Or was he cooked right around that point anyway?

His pacer should have found him and guided him back to the trail.

Too bad Western States didn't have the trail marked well.

Also, too bad Western States - making lots of money hasn't petitioned for a bridge. Heck, a makeshift "Day of the Race engineering project" that can be stowed away 364 days of the year would do. They do it in South America with vines - handmade and have been doing it for like 1,000 years or more.

How much money does the winner get?

$1,000

$2,500

$5,000???

n00brun wrote:

Sage has the physique to run sub 15hrs but not the experience. Also stomach issues, heat, etc. With this and some races more he could even win next year. His pace now is normal so his issues are slowing him down.

It's obvious how the race played out that Sage probably pushed harder than he should have because Walmsley was running away from him. There was even a comment from Sage at one point he was not happy being so far behind.

This points out why you should run your own race and not even care what anybody else is doing. You never know what will happen in a trail race especially a 100 miler.

You go out too fast in a 10k and you come in a minute or two slower than you wanted. You go out too fast in a 100 and you come in hours slower than you wanted.

I didn't see a split where he was losing ground to the kid before the detour. We'll find out in the post-interview.

He fell into the river and lost considerable time scrabbling back to the trail.

How far behind was Andrew Miller when Jim Walmsley was last known to be on course???

Valid question

It will inform Jim for next year when he go again.

The 2nd place guy seems very surprised that he was 2nd.

Crazy, to think the finish could have been 14:18 by Jim Walmsley.

n00brun wrote:

hbh wrote:

Sage spends too much time building his celebrity status, spends too much time on social media. Hi is not the champion type capable of giving max focus and turning off his phone and comp in order just to train. No champ personality here. Sorry dude.

I think he has the potential, the question is will he tap into it? and i mean specially mentally. Maybe that social media thing is ruining all, he got so overconfident about it, and maybe it was because of that celebrity stuff...

He does have the training to do sub 15 tho but something happened.

Nothing happened that hasn't happened to 100s of runners at WS. The heat, distance, and hills took their toll. It's easy to underestimate that course because it doesn't have as much of an elevation change as some of the other western 100s. But it is a downhill course that beats up your quads with relentless downhills. The old adage is that the real race starts at Foresthill.

sert wrote:

n00brun wrote:

I think he has the potential, the question is will he tap into it? and i mean specially mentally. Maybe that social media thing is ruining all, he got so overconfident about it, and maybe it was because of that celebrity stuff...

He does have the training to do sub 15 tho but something happened.

Nothing happened that hasn't happened to 100s of runners at WS. The heat, distance, and hills took their toll. It's easy to underestimate that course because it doesn't have as much of an elevation change as some of the other western 100s. But it is a downhill course that beats up your quads with relentless downhills. The old adage is that the real race starts at Foresthill.

Exactly JW and Sage were overconfient, not enough experience. The 20 Yo had 6 years or ultra running experience.

And the 20 yo has DNFed in an ultra before. He made adjustments. JW and Sage should sit down and talk with Miller. He can teach them something he learned the hard way.

I think you're mixing apples with oranges, there's nothing I've seen today that would put Sage and JW as similar ultra runners, other than both have a fast pedigree.

I just checked Walmsley's segment paces against Miller's:

Going into the river crossing at 78: Walmsley 8:04, Miller 8:54

Green Gate (climb) at 79.8: Walmsley 13:20, Miller 12:13 - Walmsley probably only slower here because of his swim, and recovering from the cold.

Auburn Lake at 85.2: Walmsley 9:37, Miller 9:37 - now even, but Walmsley no longer pulling away like he had all race before that, so he's slowing down.

Browns Bar 89.9: Walmsley 8:56, Miller 10:12 - Walmsley still pretty strong

Highway 49 at 93.5: Walmsley 46:40, Miller 11:06 - Walmsley got lost, and started walking.

Though he lost a bit of an edge at the river crossing, it looks like Walmsley didn't really bonk until around the time he got lost.

Walmsley may still be at the 93.5 aid station. He just dropped to 8th place. Maybe he is taking a rest to rejuvenate and finish, no matter how long it takes.

Make that dropped to 9th place now.

DNFed before wrote:

And the 20 yo has DNFed in an ultra before. He made adjustments. JW and Sage should sit down and talk with Miller. He can teach them something he learned the hard way.

True, he could teach them a thing or two.

JW was ahead 54 minutes at 85.2 miles.

He INCREASED that lead to 60 minutes at the 89.9 aid station. He went off course before the 93.5 aid station.

Walmsley DID NOT overestimate his ability or pace, he simply went off course.

At that point the problem becomes getting low on fuel as he had to run a lot farther between the aid stations. An extra 40 minutes (initially estimated) can make a huge difference when you may already be near depletion.

Still Bonked wrote:

Walmsley may still be at the 93.5 aid station. He just dropped to 8th place. Maybe he is taking a rest to rejuvenate and finish, no matter how long it takes.

No. He left that aid station a long time ago.