David Torrence vs Jama Aden

emullenneaux wrote:

http://www.flotrack.org/article/42925-how-david-torrence-assisted-in-the-jama-aden-drug-bust

Sounds like Aden was encouraging David Torrence to get vitamin B injections. Folic acid, a B vitamin, is needed to make red blood cells. It can be depleted under conditions of high stress, causing anemia. Injecting folic acid during periods of intense training would correct a deficiency more efficiently than taking it orally. Also, being the more dramatic route of administration, injecting might cause a greater placebo effect, giving the athlete a psychological boost.

I'm not saying that the injections work or that they were being used judiciously, in fact, I believe Torrence was wise to refuse them. I'm just saying that there's a plausible, legal (?) explanation for Aden encouraging his athletes to receive injections.

yeah, well, that and the SIX different types of epo found. just shut up already.

Don't quit your day job.

Mittel wrote:

emullenneaux wrote:http://www.flotrack.org/article/42925-how-david-torrence-assisted-in-the-jama-aden-drug-bust

Sounds like Aden was encouraging David Torrence to get vitamin B injections. Folic acid, a B vitamin, is needed to make red blood cells. It can be depleted under conditions of high stress, causing anemia. Injecting folic acid during periods of intense training would correct a deficiency more efficiently than taking it orally. Also, being the more dramatic route of administration, injecting might cause a greater placebo effect, giving the athlete a psychological boost.

I'm not saying that the injections work or that they were being used judiciously, in fact, I believe Torrence was wise to refuse them. I'm just saying that there's a plausible, legal (?) explanation for Aden encouraging his athletes to receive injections.

yeah, well, that and the SIX different types of epo found. just shut up already.

+1. This isn't even the NOP stuff last summer. Drugs, needles, bloodstained syringes, all of that was actually found. Torrence is just talking about how Aden brought up the drugs to him.

And if they do test positive, it's tainted meat and/or someone spiked their water bottle. Right. Got it.

yeah, well, that and the SIX different types of epo found. just shut up already.[/quote]

No need to be rude. I'm not trying to defend Jama Aden, as I highly doubt that his athletes are clean. I'm just pointing out that the story Torrence shares in the article doesn't really incriminate Aden. David Torrence is a well educated, intelligent guy and i'm sure there's a lot of information that he chose not to share with Flotrack.

The article reminds me a lot of the NOP allegations but without the raid.

When Magness and them all came out, the NOP defenders said , "Where's the proof? How can you think it's fishy and not have 100% proof."

However, it appears we don't get proof without a raid.

If you read the article, there is zero in there that Torrence talks about that is proven to be illegal. According to Torrence, Aden kept trying to get him to take 'vitamin' shots. The insinuation is that the vitamin shots were really illegal drugs.

Torrence has no proof of that other than the incredible performances that people had after taking drugs. It kind of reminds me of Steve Magness. As a coach or athlete, you know what is and isnt' possible. Torrence just knew it didn't seem legit.

In hindsight, it would have been much better if he'd set up a sting operation. He should have gone to WADA - well that's who I would have gone to (but then again we found out now they might have been corrupt) and done a sting.

If this was happening this year, I'd go to Travis Tygart. Tell him, "Hey I joined this group and they want me to take vitamins. I think they are drugs." What do I do?

All of this being said, we 100% need to hear real quick if there were illegal drugs found with Aden. We've had leaks that there were but if there weren't, it's going to be a PR nightmare.

+1. This isn't even the NOP stuff last summer. Drugs, needles, bloodstained syringes, all of that was actually found. Torrence is just talking about how Aden brought up the drugs to him.[/quote]

Good point. It's important to understand how Aden brought up the shots. I think that approach would work on 9/10 young African athletes without them every questioning what was being injected. A 30 year-old Berkeley grad, not so much. I imagine Dibaba/Souleiman most likely knew better as well.

Mittel wrote:

emullenneaux wrote:http://www.flotrack.org/article/42925-how-david-torrence-assisted-in-the-jama-aden-drug-bust

Sounds like Aden was encouraging David Torrence to get vitamin B injections. Folic acid, a B vitamin, is needed to make red blood cells. It can be depleted under conditions of high stress, causing anemia. Injecting folic acid during periods of intense training would correct a deficiency more efficiently than taking it orally. Also, being the more dramatic route of administration, injecting might cause a greater placebo effect, giving the athlete a psychological boost.

I'm not saying that the injections work or that they were being used judiciously, in fact, I believe Torrence was wise to refuse them. I'm just saying that there's a plausible, legal (?) explanation for Aden encouraging his athletes to receive injections.

yeah, well, that and the SIX different types of epo found. just shut up already.

END THREAD. NEXT.

Anyone else notice that the IAAF was aware of Torrance's allegations in spring of 2015 and took a year to contact him. Pretty savvy move to sit on leads until you need to get back in the public's good graces.

Hey rojo,

The official release from the police mentioned what was found.

How's your Spanish?

"En los registros en seis de las habitaciones del Hotel Arrahaona, en el que se alojaba el entrenador y sus atletas, se localizaron 62 jeringuillas utilizadas, 23 precargadas de EPO y seis viales de distintos tipo de EPO, como Eprex, Aranesp, Naorecormon y Eporin.

Además, también localizaron 320 botellas y viales de medicamentos inyectables no dopantes, pero sí ilegales en España, así como documentación, ordenadores y teléfonos móviles."

http://www.abc.es/deportes/abci-dopaje-juez-retira-pasaporte-jama-aden-201606231109_noticia.html

Dave is a snitch!

Baby blue wrote:

Dave is a snitch!

Should have kept quiet like Shelia Reid after Pre.

Coach Cookie wrote:

Hey rojo,

The official release from the police mentioned what was found.

How's your Spanish?

"En los registros en seis de las habitaciones del Hotel Arrahaona, en el que se alojaba el entrenador y sus atletas, se localizaron 62 jeringuillas utilizadas, 23 precargadas de EPO y seis viales de distintos tipo de EPO, como Eprex, Aranesp, Naorecormon y Eporin.

Además, también localizaron 320 botellas y viales de medicamentos inyectables no dopantes, pero sí ilegales en España, así como documentación, ordenadores y teléfonos móviles."

http://www.abc.es/deportes/abci-dopaje-juez-retira-pasaporte-jama-aden-201606231109_noticia.html

62 used syringes, 23 pre-filled with EPO, and 6 vials of distinct types of EPO found in the 6 hotel rooms of coach and his athletes.

Also, 320 bottles and vials of injectable medication - non-narcotic but illegal in Spain.....

There's your evidence.

I think that Torrence would win the fight. Jama's old and when I see pictures he seems to be mildly obese. Being a distance runner, David isn't big or muscular, but he's obviously athletic and should be able to take the old man.

OP, are you serious? There is no legal tap dancing around the fact that dope was found in the raid.

What now? Dibabas?

rojo wrote:

In hindsight, it would have been much better if he'd set up a sting operation. He should have gone to WADA - well that's who I would have gone to (but then again we found out now they might have been corrupt) and done a sting.

Go to WADA? Come on, even the NY Times knows that WADA is dirty. WADA outed a whistle-blower to the Russian organization, they are well past the "might" phase of corruption, they are part of the problem.

Fat CaliDog wrote:

Go to WADA? Come on, even the NY Times knows that WADA is dirty. WADA outed a whistle-blower to the Russian organization, they are well past the "might" phase of corruption, they are part of the problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/sports/olympics/world-anti-doping-agency-russia-cheating.html?_r=0

Even USADA and Travis Tygart was privately getting on WADA for not doing their jobs.

rojo wrote:

However, it appears we don't get proof without a raid.

Yes, which is the major reason why I am strongly in favor of the Spanish/German/Italian etc. laws, where doping, or administering doping is considered a crime. This is also the reason why IAAF and WADA continue to oppose this: they want to remain in charge and decide, who gets caught/convicted/banned and who doesn't.

It's a shame that our police can't raid NOP. Otherwise we'd know, one way or the other.

rojo wrote:

He should have gone to WADA - well that's who I would have gone to (but then again we found out now they might have been corrupt) and done a sting.

"might" - I envy you for your positive thinking.