Mark Carroll running New York Marathon

Canadian 3k, 5k, and 10k record holder Jeff Schiebler is also running the New York Marathon.

Too bad one of America's top marathons doesn't recruit Americans.

More on Schiebler:

http://www.runnerschoice.com/ontario/stwm/stwmnews.htm

Have heard that we might see one of America's "top" runners commit sometime soon for their first 26 miler at the NY marathon this November. Well have to wait and see if it is true or not?

You mean Meb and Abdi.

Culpepper is running in a fall marathon. I thought it was Chicago.

NYC does "recruit" Americans. It doesn't "recruit" as many as LaSalle Bank Chicago b/c, among other things, the holding space for the top runners at the starting area is very limited. That limits the size of the invited field from ALL countries.

More significantly, many M & W don't want to run the NYCM b/c the course is too hard, boo hoo, and because the Pink Man offers lavish inducements that are probably hard to pass up.

As far as the whole "recruiting" thing, any "open" man who had run under 2:45 or under 1:16 for a half in the previous year or so (women 3:15 or 1:31) had a guaranteed entry if they applied by May 1. So if they wanted to run NYC, they could have.

If you want to feel special, call your Mom. If you want to run NYC, just enter the race.

Why would any good American want to run NYC this year? The course is slow and hell on your legs and it is time to start nailing those olympic qualifying and "A" standard times. Go to Chicago and run fast and run with the best in the world. At NYC you'll just run against pharmacologically enhanced "B" class Africans who are all but impossible to beat and not even log a good time. Yeehaw.

The course isn't slow. The runners are. To wit:

1983 New York City Marathon Results

Listing by Top 100 Male Finishers

. First Name Last Name Sex/

Age Bib Team State Country Place Sex Pl. Age Pl. Official

Time Pace/

Mile

ROD DIXON M33 19 178 PA 1 1 1 2:08:59 4:55

GEOFF SMITH M30 T762 2 RI 2 2 1 2:09:08 4:55

RON TABB M29 4 2 OR 3 3 2 2:10:46 4:59

JOHN TUTTLE M26 44 61 AL 4 4 3 2:10:51 4:59

JOHN GRAHAM M27 3 522 BI ENGLAND 5 5 4 2:10:57 4:59

GIDAMIS SHAHANGA M22 1011 556 TX 6 6 5 2:11:05 5:00

RUDY CHAPA M25 C57 2 IN 7 7 6 2:11:13 5:00

DOMINGO TIBADUIZA M33 30 128 NV 8 8 2 2:11:21 5:00

DEREK FROUDE M24 73 542 A. AUSTRALIA 9 9 7 2:11:25 5:00

JUKKA TOIVOLA M34 13 523 0 FINLAND 10 10 3 2:11:35 5:01

DAVID GORDON M24 41 9 OR USA 11 11 8 2:11:41 5:01

PATRICK PETERSEN M23 X785 130 NY USA 12 12 9 2:12:06 5:02

KIRK PFEFFER M27 7 179 CO 13 13 10 2:12:20 5:03

KEVIN RYAN M35 24 84 MA 14 14 4 2:12:53 5:04

SANTIAGO DE LA PARTE M35 47 552 PA SPAIN 15 15 5 2:12:54 5:04

DAVID LONG M29 29 128 KY 16 16 11 2:12:57 5:04

OYVIND DAHL M32 23 543 . NORWAY 17 17 6 2:13:20 5:05

ANTHONY SANDOVAL M29 6 0 NM 18 18 12 2:13:21 5:05

DON NORMAN M25 96 84 PA 19 19 13 2:13:34 5:05

DOUG AVRIT M24 180 237 CA 20 20 14 2:13:57 5:06

DEAN MATTHEWS M28 60 2 OR 21 21 15 2:14:17 5:07

ALEX KASICH M28 45 9 OR 22 22 16 2:14:22 5:07

TERENCE COLTON M30 72 522 LE ENGLAND 23 23 7 2:14:39 5:08

SILVERIO VEGA M25 62 85 NJ 24 24 17 2:14:48 5:08

RICARDO ORTEGA M30 26 552 - SPAIN 25 25 8 2:15:04 5:09

MARTY FROELICK M25 36 54 TX 26 26 18 2:15:12 5:09

ORLANDO PIZZOLATO M25 123 534 VI ITALY 27 27 19 2:15:28 5:10

GUNTER ZAHN M29 188 563 . W GERMANY 28 28 20 2:15:29 5:10

KEVIN MCCAREY M29 43 26 CA 29 29 21 2:15:38 5:10

JOAO DE MATTA M29 156 509 ON 30 30 22 2:15:49 5:11

HIDEKI YAMAOKA M28 168 536 NY 31 31 23 2:15:50 5:11

OSVALDO FAUSTINI M27 134 534 . ITALY 32 32 24 2:15:53 5:11

ZOLTON KISS M27 120 529 . HUNGARY 33 33 25 2:15:55 5:11

GERARDO ALCALA M22 207 540 DF MEXICO 34 34 26 2:15:56 5:11

BILL GLAD M28 84 522 BE ENGLAND 35 35 27 2:16:04 5:11

CRAIG HOLM M29 182 178 NY 36 36 28 2:16:08 5:11

JOHN MORENO M28 66 26 CA 37 37 29 2:16:10 5:11

LOU SUPINO M28 339 0 CO 38 38 30 2:16:30 5:12

GERHARD KRIPPNER M26 83 563 BA W GERMANY 39 39 31 2:16:31 5:12

DAVID CLARK M40 71 549 HE ENGLAND 40 40 1 2:17:30 5:14

JOSE SILVA M30 8895 509 RI BRAZIL 41 41 9 2:17:34 5:15

JOSE LUIS M BARRIOS M29 269 552 MA SPAIN 42 42 32 2:17:42 5:15

DOUG KURTIS M31 52 2 MI 43 43 10 2:18:01 5:16

PETER RUSMAN M30 170 528 LI NETHERLANDS 44 44 11 2:18:03 5:16

COLIN KIRKHAM M38 125 522 WE ENGLAND 45 45 12 2:18:04 5:16

EDWARD MERKLER M28 391 0 NJ 46 46 33 2:18:09 5:16

LUIS OSTOLOZAGA M24 112 150 NY 47 47 34 2:18:13 5:16

RICK BLOOD M25 253 51 PA 48 48 35 2:18:13 5:16

MARTTI KIILHOLMA M33 53 179 . FINLAND 49 49 13 2:18:19 5:16

TETSUHARU IWASE M29 169 536 NY 50 50 36 2:18:21 5:16

RALPH SERNA M26 63 128 CA 51 51 37 2:18:21 5:16

DAN RECHNER M19 377 0 NY 52 52 1 2:18:22 5:16

PHILIP COPPESS M29 49 84 IA 53 53 38 2:18:22 5:16

WOLFGANG URUEGER M36 157 563 . WEST GERMANY 54 54 14 2:18:38 5:17

JULIO REIS M32 427 341 NY 55 55 15 2:19:05 5:18

DENNIS NORTHRUP M25 238 8 NY 56 56 39 2:19:11 5:18

RAFAEL GARCIA M34 225 512 BA SPAIN 57 57 16 2:19:17 5:18

REINHARD LEIBOLD M36 48 563 . W GERMANY 58 58 17 2:19:19 5:19

BRIAN REINHOLD M29 161 56 NY 59 59 40 2:19:22 5:19

MAX COLEBY M35 68 522 DU ENGLAND 60 60 18 2:19:24 5:19

JEFFREY KUMM M26 275 0 NY 61 61 41 2:19:32 5:19

KELD JOHNSON M30 X769 518 . DENMARK 62 62 19 2:19:40 5:19

EDSON BERGARA M31 78 509 SA BRAZIL 63 63 20 2:19:51 5:20

SVEND-ERIK KRISTENSEN M27 32 518 . DENMARK 64 64 42 2:20:03 5:20

GORAN HOGBERG M35 114 554 . SWEDEN 65 65 21 2:20:10 5:20

JEFFREY BRANDT M28 211 0 PA 66 66 43 2:20:14 5:21

ROBERT JOHNSON M30 281 61 MA 67 67 22 2:20:15 5:21

TOM DOWNES M23 162 145 NJ 68 68 44 2:20:26 5:21

LOUIS CALVANO M29 214 79 NY 69 69 45 2:20:29 5:21

TORE NEBY M28 153 543 . NORWAY 70 70 46 2:20:56 5:22

BRIAN MORGAN M28 127 503 N. AUSTRALIA 71 71 47 2:21:01 5:22

JOEL MAJORS M33 258 10 GA 72 72 23 2:21:02 5:22

JOEL HOPE M25 93 179 CA 73 73 48 2:21:06 5:23

JOHN STUKEY M30 191 145 NJ 74 74 24 2:21:18 5:23

AREGA ABRAHA M22 323 7 GA 75 75 49 2:21:20 5:23

SERGIS GAHDAGLIA M27 137 534 BR ITALY 76 76 50 2:21:20 5:23

STEVE SOBAJE M28 343 0 HI 77 77 51 2:21:24 5:23

ALFONS ABELLAN M32 209 512 BA SPAIN 78 78 25 2:21:26 5:23

GOTTFRIED HOEFER M24 279 563 - W GERMANY 79 79 52 2:21:33 5:24

FERNANDO FERNANDEZ M38 74 552 . SPAIN 80 80 26 2:21:40 5:24

TIBOR LATINCSICS M25 197 120 NJ 81 81 53 2:21:40 5:24

ANTHONY UZWIAK M24 196 118 CT 82 82 54 2:21:44 5:24

ARMANDO ALDEGALEGA M45 221 572 - PORTUGAL 83 83 2 2:21:46 5:24

ISTVAN DENES M35 219 563 BA W GERMANY 84 84 27 2:21:52 5:24

FRANK BUSANIC M26 300 150 NY 85 85 55 2:21:59 5:25

PAUL SCHWARTZ M24 277 21 NY 86 86 56 2:22:09 5:25

JOHN LODWICK M29 14 9 OR 87 87 57 2:22:12 5:25

HECTOR CHAVEZ M36 256 540 . MEXICO DF 88 88 28 2:22:27 5:26

ED SWIATOCHA M32 218 27 TX 89 89 29 2:22:35 5:26

RUDOLPH ROBINSON M27 337 145 NY 90 90 58 2:22:38 5:26

RAFAEL NOGUERAS M33 242 512 . SPAIN 91 91 30 2:22:55 5:27

TOMMY PERRSON M28 101 554 . SWEDEN 92 92 59 2:23:01 5:27

TIM MINOR M25 307 146 MD 93 93 60 2:23:02 5:27

DAVID WRIGHT M26 295 522 SU ENGLAND 94 94 61 2:23:15 5:28

PAUL CREACH M26 P625 524 - FRANCE 95 95 62 2:23:24 5:28

JAN IVAN WESTLUND M27 113 554 . SWEDEN 96 96 63 2:23:26 5:28

DEMETRIO CABANILLAS M28 40 540 UT 97 97 64 2:23:31 5:28

DICK QUAX M34 12 542 AU NEW ZEALAND 98 98 31 2:23:31 5:28

JOHN SKOVBJERG M27 117 518 . DENMARK 99 99 65 2:23:39 5:28

PETUR SIGMUNDSSON M26 243 530 . ICELAND 100 100 66 2:23:43 5:29

If you read this far, I was just behind this bunch in a crowd which included women, children and handicapped people.

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I'm sure the "good Americans" will all run against pharmalogically clean runners at LaSalle Bank Chicago and that they have a really good chance to beat them. At Least Khannouchi and Drossin may.

Anothr reason is exposure. If Khannouchi ran and won NYC he'd be a crossover star a la Lance Armstrong. Win the massively publicized race in his adopted hometown? Fuggedaboudit. Meanwhile, he runs and wins in Flora London and LaSalle Bank Chicago in insanse times and remains unknown to nonrunners. As long as more money isn't a big goal for him (or for the folks at New Balance who are counting on him for brand-building) great.

But the biggest reason to run NYC is my postrace party. "Hit the sauce for a good cause"

2:23 from iceland that is a pretty quick time considering there is snow the majority of the year.

Actually the old elite athlete coordinator didn't recruit Americans. The new one, David Monti, who's been in charge since last year has been working his ass off to recruit americans.

The course IS slow. That cannot be disputed. You start out running a mile straight up a bridge. There are two more bridges out on the course. It's hideous. But it is, hands down, the funnest marathon with the best spectators. That still doesn't help you run sub-2:20 or sub-2:12.

KK is the only American who could win it (in a few years maybe Meb or Abdi), but we all know that he is not as marketable as Al Webb and that he would not become a household name even if he won NYC in 2:03.

Autobahn thinks "B" class Africans run New York City? Like Margaret Okayo, who won there last year and then won Boston this spring, and Joseph Chebet, who did the same New York/Boston double a few years back? Like world recordholder Catherine Ndereba, who has been unable to win in NY? Or Tesfayae Jifar, who ran 2:07 and change for a course record last year? Those kind of "B" Class Africans?

Three quick points:

1) after 2001, it's ridiculous to claim New York City does not recruit top Americans. Where was it that the fastest marathon by an American woman in ten years was run last fall? I believe it was the marathon that includes Manhattan. The NYC organizers are always slow to release names. You can be sure there will be more "top" Americans running there in November.

2) It's also ridiculous to complain New York City is a slow course. Are Olympic and World Championship courses pancake flat like Chicago and London? No. Do people who win in Chicago and London tend to do well in the Olympics? No.

3) Finally, it is ridiculous that Khalid Khannouchi is not running New York City this fall. After setting another world record in London, what does he really have to gain by going back to Chicago except maybe a little more cash up front? How much more does the guy need at this point? A victory in the media capital of the world, which happens to be about 25 miles from his home, would mean so much more in the "long run."

Autobahn is making our case when he says that only B types run it. Imagine how much faster the times would be if A types ran it. You can't have it both ways. I've actually ran it and it was the easiset and most enjoyable race that I have ever run. Ran exactly even splits for the first 20 miles-each and every mile and slowed a bit in Central Park. Didn't notice any hills that made an impression on me other than the first but I made up for lost time going up it on the subsequent downhill. Now I realize that I could be the exception. I was a little pumped and caught the eye of a RT reporter at the finish line who put the following on page 27 of the Jan/84 edition of RT:

" of , had the kind of performance that makes seasoned marathoners shake their heads incredulously.

Minutes after the race, while most of the finishers huddled in their space blankets looking like drowned rats, the 26 year-old Canadian ate ravenously from a food bag while describing how he had just knocked his time from 2:45:51 to 2:25:41." I've been running only a year and a half," he said in a tone that suggested he wasn't sure he believed it himself, " A year ago, I weighed 205 pounds!""

Uhh. Let's see they have Marla Runyan right now and that's it. Actions speak louder than words. Last year was a one time exception for the US champs.

Just like Margaret Okayo and Tesfarye Jifar are household names. Get over the NY bias. If Khannouchi had grown up the states it would be a different matter if he won NY. But no one cares about transplants from other countries. Fair or not that is how it works.

Just don't eat the cheese.

Has Tergat or Geb (or Khannouchi) even considered running NYC? No, they go to London or Chicago and run sub 2:07.

They are the "A" class, guys with Olympic medals and world records.