Michael Slagowski 48.54 open 400.

The Empirical one wrote:

Wow, you are so so wrong. The equivalent time according to runningprs.com for his 800m and Mile are equal and the equivalent 400m time would be 46.13. So it doesn't actually show that his 48.5 indicates a better 800m. I am going to trust Drew Hunter's coach Tom Schwartz over your "observations"

You severely misunderstand and I am running out of ideas of how to explain this to you. We aren't even in the same book let alone on the same page.

I'm generally a reasonable guy so I'll try and explain again. I'll probably give up after that, I'm sorry.

This is not about equivalent times. The 'equivalent time' to a 3:43 mile is about 1:41, does that mean that anyone has ever been able to achieve both? No! The equivalent 400m to a 1:41 800m is about 43.3, does that mean that anyone could run both? Of course not.

I am comparing Michaels bests to real middle distance athletes. Not telling you the times equivalent to a 4 minute mile. That is insanity and completely irrelevant.

I am telling you that based on two marks, one twice the distance in question and one half the distance in question, it is possible to give a rough estimate of the performance possible.

What he actually does is another matter but it is likely his best lies close to the number I have thrown around, i.e sub 1:47.

Now this is the simplest possible way I can put this for you. I apologise in advance if this insults the intelligence of anyone reading it, yourself included. For a middle distance runner:

He has great 400 speed. He has great mile endurance. He should run an excellent 800m.

Please, nobody respond by telling me his 800-mile is typical or his 400-800 is typical.

I KNOW that.

It is the combination of his 400 and mile that makes his 800 stand out as an outlier.

Oh boy, you aren't grasping this at all. 48.54 is not equivalent to 3:59, 48.54 is inferior. So it doesn't show that promise for a faster 800m time. The 1:46 high school guys George Kersh and Michael Granville could run both run 46 in high school for 400m. Slagowski has not. He has run 1:48 which is equivalent to 3:59. So he not an outlier

ASU guy wrote:

let's see how old you are ?

Elijah Greer never broke 50 in an open 400 in H.S. and he is the 4th fastest 800 meter runner in high school in the united states.

I am not saying he could or couldn't, but he didn't and he ran 1:47.68 for 800 meters.

I think Greer split 48x on relay and never ran an open 400 his senior year.

slago is drago wrote:

Dumbbell thrusters wrote:

Slagowski has never said he was going after the 800m record. More than likely he is also aiming for a fast mile. Webb didn't go 1:46 and I don't think he could have in high school. He was 1:47 high. Sure he went 1:43 when he was in 3:46 shape for the mile years later. The only high school kids we have seen go 1:46 were 46-47 400m guys. So I still say we have not seen anything from Slagowski to indicate a definite 1:46.

Webb split 47.4r in HS & ran 3:53. He could have run 1:46.

I think when Webb ran his 400m and 800m PRs it was part of a triple. I think Webb 2-mile PR was run indoors on flat track; Webb's goal was runner sub-4.

The Empirical one wrote:

Oh boy, you aren't grasping this at all. 48.54 is not equivalent to 3:59, 48.54 is inferior. So it doesn't show that promise for a faster 800m time. The 1:46 high school guys George Kersh and Michael Granville could run both run 46 in high school for 400m. Slagowski has not. He has run 1:48 which is equivalent to 3:59. So he not an outlier

Oh my goodness.

Could they run sub 4 for the mile?

Are you not following that running a sub 4 mile constitutes incredible endurance, endurance that should allow him to carry his 48.5 much better in an 800m than 1:48.7?

For the last time, I do not care what times are 'equivalent' according to tables or calculators!

The equivalent 800m time to a 43 400m is 1:41. Does that mean Johnson would bash out a 1:42?!

The equivalent 800m to a 3:43 mile is 1:41, does that mean Guerrouj would have chased down the speed demon Rudisha?!

The equivalent marathon to a 12:50 5000m is about 2:04. Does that mean Farah is going to win Boston?

Equivalency is IRRELEVANT.

TrackCoach wrote:

slago is drago wrote:

Webb split 47.4r in HS & ran 3:53. He could have run 1:46.

I think when Webb ran his 400m and 800m PRs it was part of a triple. I think Webb 2-mile PR was run indoors on flat track; Webb's goal was runner sub-4.

Yeah, I believe Webb's open 400m is only 49.09. But he ran that as part of that infamous workout where he did like 1600-400-800 all within 90 mins, running 2:14-1:52 for a 4:06 1600, coming back like 45 min later with a 49.09 and then again like 45 min later with a 1:49 (?). Something like that. Lowkey meet.

His 800m PR was run at the state meet, 1:47.74, winning by 6 seconds and then he anchored the 4x400 in 47.4. And i think he got the baton in the lead and won, so possibly could have split faster with someone to chase.

Duck miler wrote:

Half of the men who qualify for this years Olympics in the 1500m can't run that for 400m. It's a damn impressive time for a HIGH SCHOOL miler.

First off, a world class milers doesn't focus on running a fast 400m; I am almost certain they could have when they were Mike's age. It is not uncommon for middle distance runner's sprint PRs to be from their youth, simple because they rarely run events they don't race at. Keep in mind that most of these guys are also would class 800m runners and its hard to imagine a 1:44x 800m runner not being able to run a 48x 400m. Obviously there always going to be exceptions especially for strength-based milers.

The Empirical one wrote:

Oh boy, you aren't grasping this at all. 48.54 is not equivalent to 3:59, 48.54 is inferior. So it doesn't show that promise for a faster 800m time. The 1:46 high school guys George Kersh and Michael Granville could run both run 46 in high school for 400m. Slagowski has not. He has run 1:48 which is equivalent to 3:59. So he not an outlier

Slagowski's 800 was a fine performance in a HS only race without any serious competition. No reason Slags can't go 1:46.5 with competition the ENTIRE race.

Yeah that is basically the point as to why he won't run 1:46. They didn't break 4 and he won't run 1:46. Clearly he has better endurance and that is why his 400m is slow. I don't know why you think it is so good.

Farah could win Boston too.

He is fast enough to run 1:46 given his far superior endurance. If I can run 50 flat for the 400m but also 3:50 for the mile, are you going to tell me I'm not 'fast' enough to run 1:49? Don't be obtuse.

As it stands, Michael appears to be an 800m specialist when looking at his 400/800 PB's in isolation. Yet he also appears to be an 800/1500 guys when those PB's are looked at in isolation.

That doesn't match up as a whole picture. It doesn't make sense.

I've given you real examples of middle distance runners and you are ignoring them.

You are acting as though you believe that 'X 400m time equals Y 800m time', as if there are no other variables.

Tell me why Coe only managed a FAT 46.8 and ran 1:41 but Amos ran exactly the same time to the hundredth with a 45.5 (and a 44.2 relay)? Perhaps the reason could lie in one running a 3:47 mile that year and the other has a 3k best of 8:30? I.e one has world class endurance and the other does not. Coe can carry his 400m speed much further.

This really isn't worth my time because we will see what Slagowski runs this summer. Everyone can see my point and anyone who thinks critically will understand at least where I'm coming from.

Doesn't include people putting numbers into an online calculator to tell me 1:48 is equivalent to 46 for the 400m as if that means anything at all. 46 is about equivalent to a 19m shotput, how is that useful in any way?

I wonder if some of these poseurs/posters have actually run in competitive track races. When a guy runs 1:48 with EVEN SPLITS and NO COMPETITION, that is not running to his full potential. 1:47-low in an aggressive, competitive race is the MINIMUM to be expected for such a runner. 1:46-mid is more likely. We already know what Hunter's potential is in such a race-1:48. He had the perfect setup for a max performance last weekend and took full advantage of it.

And my point stands that Slagowski has the fastest FAT of any HS sub-4 miler. Webb ran 49.09, and Kenyan high schools don't have FAT setups. Any other comparisons or speculations are just noise.

The times are relevant given he has run them thus far. Your Amos example to Coe example shows Amos as a young athlete who concentrated on the 400 first and then the 800. He was also what 19? when he ran those times and doing little mileage. Coe was more balanced in his training from the beginning. Coe certainly could have run 45 had he focused on it. As many have posted ,why? Rudisha might also be capable of 3:47. Why doesn't he train for it. Simple ,at the elite level the best get paid to run the speciality event. I trained with 2 sub 4 guys in college. Both ran 49 in practice at the end of a workout. Fermin Cacho ran 50 at the end of 1500m yet has no F.A.T faster than that. I am sure he could have run faster than 48. Rojo has sited an example too. 48.54 is not that fast.Yet you'll be hard pressed to find many 1:46 guys that can only go 48.54. Site your examples. C'mon

Andro McNitro wrote:

I wonder if some of these poseurs/posters have actually run in competitive track races. When a guy runs 1:48 with EVEN SPLITS and NO COMPETITION, that is not running to his full potential. 1:47-low in an aggressive, competitive race is the MINIMUM to be expected for such a runner. 1:46-mid is more likely. We already know what Hunter's potential is in such a race-1:48. He had the perfect setup for a max performance last weekend and took full advantage of it.

And my point stands that Slagowski has the fastest FAT of any HS sub-4 miler. Webb ran 49.09, and Kenyan high schools don't have FAT setups. Any other comparisons or speculations are just noise.

This is it, especially the first paragraph. Should be end of thread!

Oh pleez, give me a call when he runs 1:46. I bet that will be a couple of years before I get that call.

Here are some British athletes because the rankings are comprehensive and I can't be arsed to search for PB's.

http://www.powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=67162

http://www.powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=47405

http://www.powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=2995

48.5 the year he ran 1:46.2

http://www.powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=377196

48.2 and 1:45 (48.55 the year of his 800m PB)

http://www.powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=1382

48.8 shortly before 1:45 last year

http://www.powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=7917

I also know Coe ran 48.9 the year he broke the British indoor record with 1:46.5 and went on to run 1:44.99 at the end of that season (I'm sure his 400 would have improved by then but next year he only ran 47.7 and 1:43.9) .

I CBA to look for any more.

Well said dude.if you look at his 400m open, it's fairly obvious he could have faster if he was chasing someone down or battling with someone that last 100m. As a 400/800m runner/coach, i almost guarantee you that ON THAT DAY he could have run 47.x with competition.so, in my mind there is no doubt he is a 47.x runner. And 47.x runners are capable of 1:46's, especially if they can run a 3:59 solo mile within a few weeks.put it this way - 48.5 is an amazing 400m time for a high school state championship. 48.5 would almost always win my state meet, and usually the guy who did it could run 21.6 200m and 10.8 100m, or a 1:51-2 800m will he run 1:46? probably not (this year). he's really good. i wonder how good he can get. no one knows

Andro McNitro wrote:

I wonder if some of these poseurs/posters have actually run in competitive track races. When a guy runs 1:48 with EVEN SPLITS and NO COMPETITION, that is not running to his full potential. 1:47-low in an aggressive, competitive race is the MINIMUM to be expected for such a runner. 1:46-mid is more likely. We already know what Hunter's potential is in such a race-1:48. He had the perfect setup for a max performance last weekend and took full advantage of it.

And my point stands that Slagowski has the fastest FAT of any HS sub-4 miler. Webb ran 49.09, and Kenyan high schools don't have FAT setups. Any other comparisons or speculations are just noise.

I see what you are saying Metric Miler. I was kidding you.

Most of us agree that Michael has not even been pushed at all by anyone in any of these races. He is running very fast times all by himself. There is no doubt he can run faster for 400m, 800m, and mile this year with some people to push him. Who knows how much faster?

I also have a new nickname for Michael:

"The Big Slagowski"

rjm33 wrote:

I also have a new nickname for Michael:

"The Big Slagowski"

So let it be written, so let it be done.

All of your examples are of older athletes that did a 400m at the beginning of the season and then ran the 800m 2 months after or rarely ever raced the 400m like Usain Bolt doing his once yearly 400m at the beginning of the season. Kind of like my example of my two teammates that ran 49 in practice at the end of a workout or ROJO's example. And in a couple of the cases your guys had run 47 the year prior. I guess Bolt is only capable of a 45.28 though like Cacho is only capable of a 50. Yeah right .Again the high school guys that have done it had run 46. I have seen lots of kids run a faster 400m and only run 1:48-9 and until this kid does it I stand by Michael Granville's record not being broken by Slagowski. Very very likely that this kid has peaked and is going to let you all down. We will see and I honestly hope I am wrong.