Andro McNitro wrote:
The Bottom Line:
Slagowski now has the fastest 400m FAT of any High School sub-4 miler in history.
Nope not even close. As mentioned earlier Webb ran faster and that is just in the US. Kenya has produced several that have run faster.
Your other times are much better than your 1:47 high 400m PR you mentioned. You must be more of an endurance type runner.Metric miler also needs to understand that he is the only poster on this thread that has not broken 50.0 for 400m. His 4:05 mile PR is also in the bottom 2% of all posters at this forum.OK Metric miler?
IBroke4 wrote:
IBroke4 wrote:I have broken 4 minutes 4 times, and ran 3:38 in the 1500. I have a 1:47 high 400m PR, and I ran 48.30 FAT. When I ran that 400, I was a 1:48.mid/3:41 1500 guy.
I think Slagowski is in 3:57 shape, and I think he'll run 1:47.high. I know a decent amount about his training. I don't think he will run all that much faster into the outdoor season. He's already had a very long season (ran 4:15, losing by 6 seconds in the last 800m to 3:57.38 guy David Elliott. I think he was probably in 4:04 shape in the right race then.
I do think he will run 1:45 high/1:46 low in college, and probably in the 3:51-3:53 range. Should he stay healthy, keep his head on his shoulders and keep training hard, I think he would have the ability to break 1:44 and 3:30. That's a great career. I think that something that a lot of people forget is that young athletes don't always have straight line performances. Running 1:46 takes a lot of pieces coming together, some of which I think happens as the body matures. Michael is a special talent, but it's probably unrealistic to think that he will be a world beater right away. Keeping the expectations realistic, and taking a longer approach to where he needs to be in 4, 8 and 12 years, would be the best path for him and those that are in his inner circle.
I edited out part of my thought. He ran 4:15 on the slow Boise indoor track in mid January, surrounded by guys that ran around 4:05 or raced at the same level as 4:05 guys. He also ran 4:10 at the Simplot games, and 1:52 and 1:50 in indoors. He didn't have a light winter by any means. Also, if I'm Drew Hunter, I'm racing Slagowski the same way David Elliott did- by squeezing down from 800-1000 out and running the kick out of him from a long ways out.
Metric Miler wrote:
The Empirical one wrote:Not really, you just couldn't break 50. So you think that is the norm. It is common and for high school kids is the norm. You couldn't break 4 either ,so maybe some correlation should be made on your part.
I am not using myself as a benchmark, this has nothing to do with me.
If you look at a comprehensive ranking website such as the 'powerof10' used in the UK you will see I am correct.
I know a runner who currently runs 1:48 and 3:59 right now and he could not touch sub 49.
A 'true' 4 min miler (or 3:42 1500) type is far more likely to have PB's that are around the following, give or take a small percentage either way for each:
51.5, 1:50.0, 3:42, 4:00
Essentially, if you can run 1:50 flat with 51 400m speed then you have the endurance which shows you should get close to 4:00.
Keeping the 800m constant, increasing the 400m time will bring the mile time down, and decreasing the 400m time will increase the mile time.
For Slagowski his 400-800-mile currently do not match up. The 400 and mile times together suggest something much faster than 1:48.7 in the 800m. Given that he ran the 1:48.7 with so much ease as a solo effort, one can assume that conclusion to be close to the truth. How fast is up for debate I suppose.
Consider this: 1:48.7/48.5 = 2.24
This is the kind of ratio seen in runners like Rudisha and Amos. Very fast speed based 800m runners with poor 1500m ability. Amos could probably just about run 4:00 in the mile as a 1:42 guy.
The endurance based athletes who ran the mile like Coe had conversions of ~ 2.17 from his 400-800 and ~2.23 from his 800-mile.
Symmonds is another example. His 1500 converts to about 3:51 for the mile:
400-800 ~2.17 800-mile ~2.24.
Slagowski's 400-800 is 2.24 and his 800-mile is 2.20.
So Slagowski has relatively much worse endurance from his 400 to 800, but then his endurance somehow picks up again and he can hold from his 800 to mile much better. This makes no sense.
As it stands, these times make much more sense: 48.5, 1:46.5, 3:59.5
First off, you said low 50s. Not sub 49. Your calculator is rubbish. There isn't a US high school kid ever that ran 1:50 flat that didn't run faster than 51.5. 1:46.5 and 3:59.5 are not equal. Drew Hunter's coach also has a calculator at runningprs.com and it shows 1:48.4 as equivalent to 3:59. Hey guess what , that is basically what Slagowski has done. Hmmm
Consider this: 1:48.7/48.5 = 2.24
This is the kind of ratio seen in runners like Rudisha and Amos. Very fast speed based 800m runners with poor 1500m ability. Amos could probably just about run 4:00 in the mile as a 1:42 guy.
______________________________________________________________
No way is 48 fast for a 1:48 guy! I don't know how your coming up with these ratios.
Anyone here who has broken 1:49, please post your 400m times. thanks.
I'll start (even though I never came close to sub 1:50.
1:53.3/49.6
His running form is very reminiscent of Graham Hood (1992 Olympic 1500m finalist at 19 years old). He looks like he could run through a brick wall.
Very promising.
800M 1:48.3 relay
400M 49.0 relay
The 800 is a fickle b*tch. I don't think I ever ran close to what I should have, and part of that is getting into the right races. The 400 you can run fast on a one off occasion, but 800 and 1500 are important to have races that get out quick, too. I ran probably 5 1500s for every 800 I ran. The 3:38 and 48.30 are also separated by 4 full years, most of which was going all in on the 1500. 800 and 1500 are separated by 2 years.
I know that a lot of people on here claim to have run such and such times. I ran for a D1 program that consistently had good middle distance teams, and ran my best times 6 or 7 years ago. I'm a slow 35 year old man now. I meant the last part about taking progression slowly. I was at a pretty high level when I ran those marks, and started listening to people that said that I needed to do this or that to get the extra little bit. I ended my 20's with severe chronic overuse injuries, a running career that had careened off the tracks and regrets.
Michael is a special talent. The worst thing that the running community can do is hang all of our expectations on him or be critical when he races poorly. It didn't work for Webb or Hall, and it won't work for Maton, Fisher, Brazier, Hunter, the McGortys, the Lomong brothers, Slagowski, Saarel, or any of the others that we all talk about being the future of American running before tearing them down for getting hurt or racing poorly.
No way is 48 fast for a 1:48 guy! I don't know how your coming up with these ratios.
Anyone here who has broken 1:49, please post your 400m times. thanks.
I'll start (even though I never came close to sub 1:50.
1:53.3/49.6[/quote]
Ran mostly 5000m and 3 mile races by my mid-20s, but I ran 50.4 in a club relay once at 19 years of age for 440, and 1:48.9 for 800 metres a year later a week after a 3:39.6 1500 metres.
It does have to do you with Metric Miler. You are incorrect.
A person has informed me that your conversions are complete drivel.
Half of the men who qualify for this years Olympics in the 1500m can't run that for 400m. It's a damn impressive time for a HIGH SCHOOL miler.
malmo wrote:
Prediction time wrote:I think he will break Granville's 800m record in June.
1:46.0
Honestly, I don't even think that this is a very bold prediction. Just indicative of his ability. Truly a special youngster. Very exciting stuff!
I don't think that's bold at all. I was a,huge fan of Ritz and Hall during their junior years. I feel that Slagowski upside is even better than either of them. Love his running style, he just gets after it and doesn't let up. I wouldn't blink if we were to see him run sub 3:50 against college competion, although I fear he leaves it on the track in January.
Comparisons to Ryun and Cram are justified.
re: "I wouldn't blink if we were to see him run sub 3:50 against college competion,"
Is it possible you mistyped?
malmo wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:Do you mean sub 3:50 in a few years?
.
Yes, of course, a few years, "against college competition".(see above). I believe he could go 3:52 to 3:54 this year in a hovered race this year if it was avaliable (doubtful in an Olympic year). If he broke 3:56 in a hs only event I wouldn't be surprised. He's just getting started.
Dumbbell thrusters wrote:
Andro McNitro wrote:The Bottom Line:
Slagowski now has the fastest 400m FAT of any High School sub-4 miler in history.
Nope not even close. As mentioned earlier Webb ran faster and that is just in the US. Kenya has produced several that have run faster.
No, Webb ran under 48 for a relay split that fast with a flying start. Who from Kenya has run faster?
He does look like Graham. Also reminds me of Paul Vandegrift
HardLoper wrote:
Dumbbell thrusters wrote:Nope not even close. As mentioned earlier Webb ran faster and that is just in the US. Kenya has produced several that have run faster.
No, Webb ran under 48 for a relay split that fast with a flying start. Who from Kenya has run faster?
Yes he did run under 48 for a relay split and 48.19 in the open. Benjamin Kipkurui
TrackCoach wrote:
malmo wrote:I don't think that's bold at all. I was a,huge fan of Ritz and Hall during their junior years. I feel that Slagowski upside is even better than either of them. Love his running style, he just gets after it and doesn't let up. I wouldn't blink if we were to see him run sub 3:50 against college competion, although I fear he leaves it on the track in January.
Comparisons to Ryun and Cram are justified.
re: "I wouldn't blink if we were to see him run sub 3:50 against college competion,"
Is it possible you mistyped?
No. I meant when he is in college, not this year.
Any one of the guys in the top 10 all time that are from Kenya, probably.
http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/middle-long/1500-metres/outdoor/men/u18
Duck miler wrote:
Half of the men who qualify for this years Olympics in the 1500m can't run that for 400m. It's a damn impressive time for a HIGH SCHOOL miler.
Really?
Maybe that is why my previous post on the first page of this thread was:
Not really horrible for a miler in high school.
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7273659#ixzz48HyuYe6kThe Empirical one wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:I am not using myself as a benchmark, this has nothing to do with me.
If you look at a comprehensive ranking website such as the 'powerof10' used in the UK you will see I am correct.
I know a runner who currently runs 1:48 and 3:59 right now and he could not touch sub 49.
A 'true' 4 min miler (or 3:42 1500) type is far more likely to have PB's that are around the following, give or take a small percentage either way for each:
51.5, 1:50.0, 3:42, 4:00
Essentially, if you can run 1:50 flat with 51 400m speed then you have the endurance which shows you should get close to 4:00.
Keeping the 800m constant, increasing the 400m time will bring the mile time down, and decreasing the 400m time will increase the mile time.
For Slagowski his 400-800-mile currently do not match up. The 400 and mile times together suggest something much faster than 1:48.7 in the 800m. Given that he ran the 1:48.7 with so much ease as a solo effort, one can assume that conclusion to be close to the truth. How fast is up for debate I suppose.
Consider this: 1:48.7/48.5 = 2.24
This is the kind of ratio seen in runners like Rudisha and Amos. Very fast speed based 800m runners with poor 1500m ability. Amos could probably just about run 4:00 in the mile as a 1:42 guy.
The endurance based athletes who ran the mile like Coe had conversions of ~ 2.17 from his 400-800 and ~2.23 from his 800-mile.
Symmonds is another example. His 1500 converts to about 3:51 for the mile:
400-800 ~2.17 800-mile ~2.24.
Slagowski's 400-800 is 2.24 and his 800-mile is 2.20.
So Slagowski has relatively much worse endurance from his 400 to 800, but then his endurance somehow picks up again and he can hold from his 800 to mile much better. This makes no sense.
As it stands, these times make much more sense: 48.5, 1:46.5, 3:59.5
First off, you said low 50s. Not sub 49. Your calculator is rubbish. There isn't a US high school kid ever that ran 1:50 flat that didn't run faster than 51.5. 1:46.5 and 3:59.5 are not equal. Drew Hunter's coach also has a calculator at runningprs.com and it shows 1:48.4 as equivalent to 3:59. Hey guess what , that is basically what Slagowski has done. Hmmm
The runner I'm thinking of has not broken 51.
My 'calculator' is no calculator. These are conversions based on observations of real world performances.
This is not telling you what are 'equivalent' times, that is nonsense. If someone ran a 400 time 'equivalent' to their mile time their 800m would be much better than either.
This is telling you that looking at the 400 to 800 in isolation from the 800 to 1500 is insanity. The runner has run fast in the 400m and the mile.
I will explain again for you in plainer English.
Of course, 48.5 for a 1:48 runner is fine. I understand that, clearly from my post. That is the kind of conversion seen by Amos and Rudisha, do the math yourself, and that is perfectly fine for a speedy or pure 800m type.
Then you look at his 800m to his mile, and his conversion is better than Coe or Symmonds. I.e. he has more relative endurance than them. He can hold his 800m speed through to the mile better than Coe or Symmonds could.
That shows great aerobic strength.
It is not logical to have a runner that shows relatively poor endurance from 400-800m, then somehow have great endurance from 800 to the mile.
There are only two explanations; either he sucks at the 800m or he is capable of much faster.
There is a third explanation Metric Miler:You have somehow become vent...olin.I thought you were trying to do a parody of him with your conversions.Oh boy.
Metric Miler wrote:
The Empirical one wrote:First off, you said low 50s. Not sub 49. Your calculator is rubbish. There isn't a US high school kid ever that ran 1:50 flat that didn't run faster than 51.5. 1:46.5 and 3:59.5 are not equal. Drew Hunter's coach also has a calculator at runningprs.com and it shows 1:48.4 as equivalent to 3:59. Hey guess what , that is basically what Slagowski has done. Hmmm
The runner I'm thinking of has not broken 51.
My 'calculator' is no calculator. These are conversions based on observations of real world performances.
This is not telling you what are 'equivalent' times, that is nonsense. If someone ran a 400 time 'equivalent' to their mile time their 800m would be much better than either.
This is telling you that looking at the 400 to 800 in isolation from the 800 to 1500 is insanity. The runner has run fast in the 400m and the mile.
I will explain again for you in plainer English.
Of course, 48.5 for a 1:48 runner is fine. I understand that, clearly from my post. That is the kind of conversion seen by Amos and Rudisha, do the math yourself, and that is perfectly fine for a speedy or pure 800m type.
Then you look at his 800m to his mile, and his conversion is better than Coe or Symmonds. I.e. he has more relative endurance than them. He can hold his 800m speed through to the mile better than Coe or Symmonds could.
That shows great aerobic strength.
It is not logical to have a runner that shows relatively poor endurance from 400-800m, then somehow have great endurance from 800 to the mile.
There are only two explanations; either he sucks at the 800m or he is capable of much faster.
Wow, you are so so wrong. The equivalent time according to runningprs.com for his 800m and Mile are equal and the equivalent 400m time would be 46.13. So it doesn't actually show that his 48.5 indicates a better 800m. I am going to trust Drew Hunter's coach Tom Schwartz over your "observations"
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