Why should I think Boris Berian is clean?

I remembered that as soon as I posted. She seems not quite as strong last couple of years, but very determined. She certainly shows none of the hallmarks of doping in her event (i.e. Russians and Turks coming out of the bushes in championships)

I'll give this a crack....Boris didn't train in college. It's as simple as that, and that's literally the "turn around" you're looking for in his career. He wasn't trying and basically ran 1:48, and it sounds like BS...but it's he honest truth. He didn't go to class, he didn't take training seriously, and he didn't care. Adams is a place you go to run and go to school, and there's nothing else. He didn't want to go to school, his training suffered, and he had a lot of stress seeing as the only thing that could keep him training was the one thing he didn't have any interest in doing (school). He fought some injuries and things that held him back, because like I said earlier, he didn't train consistently outside of a few key workouts, so when he did a session he'd end up getting banged up because he could run incredibly hard despite not having the safety net of regular training adaptations to keep you relatively healthy.

Do you know that for sure, or is it speculation? That's the kind of information that would only help, and an example why the Ryan Hill thread is 8 replies long and this is 40+: we know his history.

Boris's case is suspicious. That doesn't mean it isn't impossible.

This is kind of weird,but I actually think if he as really doping he would scale back and have only run 1:44-high last summer, then go for 1:42 this year with fewer questions around him. It seems weirdly improv and uncontrived.

But I'm a little hypocrital because that Tufa guy from Albania had a very similar breakthrough and I totally think he juiced.

Yams wrote:

His PR's before 2015 were 1:48.93 and 47.34. Then he goes and drops more than 5 seconds in one year. If he were from any other country the message boards would be exploding. Very inspirational, but seems suspicious. High reward to do well considering his previous financial situations, little to lose. Anyone have any details or info that would help support his cleanliness?

You cannot "support" someone's cleanliness. As of now the only reason you seem to have is that he made a big improvement. Turn this around. What information would "convince" you that he's clean?

Clerk wrote:

High school kids can go sub 47, but none go under 1:44.

They can't even go under 1:46, and IIRC only Kersh ever went under 1:47.

Sub 47 is an ordinary competitive, scholastic 400. Sub 1:44 is Diamond League world elite. Not even close.

Someone who runs 1:43 should - but not always, e.g. Symmonds - be able to run sub 47, but the converse is definitely false.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Clerk wrote:

High school kids can go sub 47, but none go under 1:44.

They can't even go under 1:46, and IIRC only Kersh ever went under 1:47.

Sub 47 is an ordinary competitive, scholastic 400. Sub 1:44 is Diamond League world elite. Not even close.

Someone who runs 1:43 should - but not always, e.g. Symmonds - be able to run sub 47, but the converse is definitely false.

Silly goose, Kersh doesn't even hold the HS record. But your point is correct of course, and I don't think anyone is arguing that. The fact that he ran sub 47 meant he at least had the potential to be a world class 800 guy with more strength....unless he was doped in HS?? Excuse me gotta go put my tinfoil hat on

Sandybeaver wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

They can't even go under 1:46, and IIRC only Kersh ever went under 1:47.

Sub 47 is an ordinary competitive, scholastic 400. Sub 1:44 is Diamond League world elite. Not even close.

Someone who runs 1:43 should - but not always, e.g. Symmonds - be able to run sub 47, but the converse is definitely false.

Silly goose, Kersh doesn't even hold the HS record. But your point is correct of course, and I don't think anyone is arguing that. The fact that he ran sub 47 meant he at least had the potential to be a world class 800 guy with more strength....unless he was doped in HS?? Excuse me gotta go put my tinfoil hat on

People keep saying that, that fast 400m runners could be fast 800m runners with more strength, like its as easy as running 15 more miles per week. The same kind of people that said Wariner could run 1:45. Who is an example of that, a pure 400m runner moving up successfully? (Is there any sub 47 HS runner (as in, a 400m specialist, not a Webb-type) who went on to run under 1:48? I ask not as a rhetorical question, but because I don't know)

You should go to Big Bear and train and live with the group and see for yourself.

Sandybeaver wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

They can't even go under 1:46, and IIRC only Kersh ever went under 1:47.

Sub 47 is an ordinary competitive, scholastic 400. Sub 1:44 is Diamond League world elite. Not even close.

Someone who runs 1:43 should - but not always, e.g. Symmonds - be able to run sub 47, but the converse is definitely false.

Silly goose, Kersh doesn't even hold the HS record. But your point is correct of course, and I don't think anyone is arguing that. The fact that he ran sub 47 meant he at least had the potential to be a world class 800 guy with more strength....unless he was doped in HS?? Excuse me gotta go put my tinfoil hat on

Do you think if Rudisha ran more miles he could run world class 1500m times? Same argument.

Clerk wrote:

Who is an example of that, a pure 400m runner moving up successfully? (Is there any sub 47 HS runner (as in, a 400m specialist, not a Webb-type) who went on to run under 1:48? I ask not as a rhetorical question, but because I don't know)

Mark Everett. 47.55 for 440 yards the year before he went to university. I don't have any data on him running an 800m before then.

I don't know about their youth, but Juantarena and Harald Schmid are others who may qualify. And Rudisha, too, was initially a 400m man, but moved to the 800m with some success.

CLEAN. all the haters can hate, but talent is talent. and now he is actually working hard. plenty more in the tank. he will break the AR and bring home plenty more medals if he learns how to run rounds.

I think he is clean. I do not have anything to say about him. I love all the support and explanations as to why he is clean though. Things like his PR improved within a short time because he is talented, he wasn't running good because he was struggling financially and working in McDs and so forth and so on. And why do we always point fingers on non-Americans when they take the same path as in quick improvements? Can we also think that they may have been talented but struggled financially? Someone also mentioned that Berian would not have afforded to buy drugs but Africans can? Wow

Clerk wrote:

So, what did he do in training in the 6,9 or 12 months before his 1:43 that he wasn't when he ran 1:48 in college? How was he unable to maintain that level in college but able to do it while sleeping on coaches and working at McDonalds?

I beat my college 5k PR by over 30 seconds as a 25 year old post collegiate. Was I doping? Same margin of improvement.

ironside wrote:

Metric Miler: You and Clerk are wrong. Clerk stated apples & oranges regarding my sub-47 400 metres statement. According to physiologists: Owen Anderson, PhD., Running Science and David Martin, PhD., Better Training for Distance Runners, the 400 metres is strongly correlated with 800 performance. As of 03/18/2016, the 124 men whom have raced sub-1:44, 800 metres are all proven sub-47.26 men (I cannot find a sub-47.26 for Wilson Kipketer but I am sure he was capable of sub-47 400 metres). Individuals were doubting Berian's talent to race sub-1:44 800 metres. I stated Berian raced 46.93 400 metres, 2011 which demonstrates talent. Obviously, not every sub-47 is going to break 1:44 800 metres. Metric Miler, you started in a thread earlier complaining about lack of 800/1500 men. Do you mean, 48+ 400 metres men? 48+ 400 metres men winning 800 metres WC or Olympic gold is a gone era.

You must have failed logic.

A, then B. Therefore, if B, A.

There are 47 second 400 runners who are not physically capable of breaking 1:50. Ever. In their lives. Take your nose out of a book for once and go actually coach a track team.

I vote clean for many reasons. But I would also like to add that he lives with other unsponsored athletes. I think it would be hard to dope under the same roof as other people and them not know or at least raise suspicion. We all know how small the running community is and I think some type of chatter would be leaked if he was doping.

Clearly his roommates r not doping or they r not doing it right.

Pepetank wrote:

I vote clean for many reasons. But I would also like to add that he lives with other unsponsored athletes. I think it would be hard to dope under the same roof as other people and them not know or at least raise suspicion. We all know how small the running community is and I think some type of chatter would be leaked if he was doping.

Clearly his roommates r not doping or they r not doing it right.

O-Mer-Ta

HRE wrote:

Yams wrote:

His PR's before 2015 were 1:48.93 and 47.34. Then he goes and drops more than 5 seconds in one year. If he were from any other country the message boards would be exploding. Very inspirational, but seems suspicious. High reward to do well considering his previous financial situations, little to lose. Anyone have any details or info that would help support his cleanliness?

You cannot "support" someone's cleanliness. As of now the only reason you seem to have is that he made a big improvement. Turn this around. What information would "convince" you that he's clean?

Why is Berian any different from Amel Tuka who went from 1:46 to 1:42 in one year and widely suspected of doping? Because he's American? Grounds for suspicion are the same.