Why should I think Boris Berian is clean?

You can't just look at the PRs. Context is important. During 2014 he was still working at McDonald's, probably training much less and less effectively than now.

Read this also

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/from-flipping-burgers-to-national-champion-in-less-than-two-years

sdfsdf wrote:

You can't just look at the PRs. Context is important. During 2014 he was still working at McDonald's, probably training much less and less effectively than now.

You can't make a comment about not knowing context and then make up your own.

And what you say is not relevent. Its not like he got a contract last January so he could quit his job and then train.

At some point, he had to turn around his training. His result only turned last summer. What was the turnaround in training that he wasn't able to do before?

And I want to pre-empt this common argument from other events (the "just look at him, he is so well built, of course he is going to be better). I wager that he is too muscular for the 800. Something has to be powering that body around the track, and its more than the natural engine that got him to 1:48.

Americans don't dope.

/EOT

ironside wrote:

Yams, did you misstate a fact to make a point? Berian's PB: 200 metres, 21.97, 04/07/2012; 400 metres, 49.93, 05/21/2011 according to All-athletics.com. Nearly ever sub-47 400 metres man has the talent to run 800 metres, sub-1:44. The reasons why not every sub-47 man do not break 1:44: 1) do not know how to train properly for 800 metres; 2) unwilling to train for 800 metres; 3) body breaks down when training for 800 metres.

Thats like saying "All fruits are apples! Except for 1)Bananas 2) oranges 3) all fruit that aren't apples

We don't see every sub 47 400m runner go sub 1:44 because a speed side guy (the ones with fast 200m) trade off that natural speed talent for natural endurance talent. That's an ambiguous generalization, but it manifests in many ways: the fast and slow twitch ratio of the runner; body proportions and mechanics; the trade off of muscle mass to deliver power to sprint and the limits of dragging the mass around for half a mile. High school kids can go sub 47, but none go under 1:44. The amount of endurance training necessary doesn't happen in these runners (all guys, not just HS) because the endurance training undermines the speed that got them sub47 in the first place. It's ridiculous to say that every 47" guy is a 1'44 guy in waiting.

I was wondering too.

After thinking about it, I think he's clean:

1. He's American. This isn't Russia.

2. He was broke while improving. How was he going to afford drugs?

3. He's talented. 46.9 I'm high school

4. He's working for the first time with a world class coach.

5. He's hungry for results. See McDonald's.

6. He's young. It's not unusual for a 23 year old to have a break through season. If he was doing this at 34...

I see you are a common nutcase. Good day, sir.

Xcskier66 wrote:

I was wondering too.

After thinking about it, I think he's clean:

1. He's American. This isn't Russia.

2. He was broke while improving. How was he going to afford drugs?

3. He's talented. 46.9 I'm high school

4. He's working for the first time with a world class coach.

5. He's hungry for results. See McDonald's.

6. He's young. It's not unusual for a 23 year old to have a break through season. If he was doing this at 34...

So, what did he do in training in the 6,9 or 12 months before his 1:43 that he wasn't when he ran 1:48 in college? How was he unable to maintain that level in college but able to do it while sleeping on coaches and working at McDonalds?

Sleeping on his coaches?

0/10

gotta put more effort in your work, son

Sleeping on coaches is really the key. Even if you have a coach that used to run, you want them to have gotten a little fat so their belly is a good pillow. Otherwise you'll be tossing and turning all night. Good sleep is critical to recover from hard training.

Congrats Boris, you are now free from suspicion because I made a typo. That's how it works right?

Shut up, he's clean.

Centro Fan Club wrote:

Shut up, he's clean.

You seem to know the facts. Can you share what his training was like when he ran 1:48? What was his training like after? What changes did he make before the 2015 season to develop so much in such little time?

It could be that he ran 1:48 while eating at McDonalds and running 25 miles a week. In which case some serious and structured training before 2015 could result in the massive improvement. But until we know more, assuming for the time being that his career to that point was more typical, jumping 5 seconds is suspicious. That, combined with the current climate of the World's elites, not having the discussion is purposefully ignorant.

I'd say wanting to have an argument despite being ignorant of the facts is rather silly. But of course, you are silly, so carry on!

Yams wrote:

His PR's before 2015 were 1:48.93 and 47.34. Then he goes and drops more than 5 seconds in one year. If he were from any other country the message boards would be exploding. Very inspirational, but seems suspicious. High reward to do well considering his previous financial situations, little to lose. Anyone have any details or info that would help support his cleanliness?

He showers every day???

Did Wejo think to ask this in the elevator as any good reporter would, or was he doing a fanboy thing?

Clerk wrote:

Xcskier66 wrote:

I was wondering too.

After thinking about it, I think he's clean:

1. He's American. This isn't Russia.

2. He was broke while improving. How was he going to afford drugs?

3. He's talented. 46.9 I'm high school

4. He's working for the first time with a world class coach.

5. He's hungry for results. See McDonald's.

6. He's young. It's not unusual for a 23 year old to have a break through season. If he was doing this at 34...

So, what did he do in training in the 6,9 or 12 months before his 1:43 that he wasn't when he ran 1:48 in college? How was he unable to maintain that level in college but able to do it while sleeping on coaches and working at McDonalds?

Did you read his number 4? The coaching is probably the biggest factor. Have you seen the workouts Brenda Martinez has posted? You won't see that type of training at most universities.

Completely agree. The Letsrun philosophy is simply "oh you are naturally fast? Do more miles and you'll make a great distance runner"

Metric Miler: You and Clerk are wrong. Clerk stated apples & oranges regarding my sub-47 400 metres statement. According to physiologists: Owen Anderson, PhD., Running Science and David Martin, PhD., Better Training for Distance Runners, the 400 metres is strongly correlated with 800 performance. As of 03/18/2016, the 124 men whom have raced sub-1:44, 800 metres are all proven sub-47.26 men (I cannot find a sub-47.26 for Wilson Kipketer but I am sure he was capable of sub-47 400 metres). Individuals were doubting Berian's talent to race sub-1:44 800 metres. I stated Berian raced 46.93 400 metres, 2011 which demonstrates talent. Obviously, not every sub-47 is going to break 1:44 800 metres. Metric Miler, you started in a thread earlier complaining about lack of 800/1500 men. Do you mean, 48+ 400 metres men? 48+ 400 metres men winning 800 metres WC or Olympic gold is a gone era.