If you run a WR pace as a split in a longer race, do you get credit for the WR?
I realize that that is nearly impossible in the real world. I was inspired by a thread looking for the thread that was looking for this article: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/roots-of-unity/math-on-the-run/
(I understand that it wouldn't be enough to simply have a faster average pace, that instead, you would actually need to be clocked at the WR pace over a specific distance to even have a discussion about it.)
PS- Here is a running related question, for my fans :-)
If you run a WR pace as a split in a longer race, do you get credit for the WR?
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Yes, if you split is correctly certified and timed and meets all of the other standards for courses.
It is not that rare, I think it has been done in 25k and/or 30k as part of a marathon. I do think those might be world-best distances, rather than world records but I'm not sure. -
The current 20K and 30K world records for men and women were done en route to half marathon and marathon respectively. On the track up to 10000 m, it's virtually impossible, but you could imagine it on the 1500 m if the mile were the primary event.
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Yes en route records count. There was a discussion about this in the Dubai marathon thread, because they broke the 30km world record en route. But it only counts as a record if
1) start -> 30km is still a 'record legal' course with proper timing
2) you finish the whole race
3) you make sure to get drug tested after the race
It can happen on the track too, as long as there's a FAT camera at the desired distance (for example, US indoor 1500m record is a split from Lagat's indoor mile record)
It must be a spit from the beginning, of course. You wouldn't get credit for a split in the middle or end of a longer race. -
not an expert. wrote:
Yes en route records count. There was a discussion about this in the Dubai marathon thread, because they broke the 30km world record en route. But it only counts as a record if
1) start -> 30km is still a 'record legal' course with proper timing
2) you finish the whole race
3) you make sure to get drug tested after the race
It can happen on the track too, as long as there's a FAT camera at the desired distance (for example, US indoor 1500m record is a split from Lagat's indoor mile record)
It must be a spit from the beginning, of course. You wouldn't get credit for a split in the middle or end of a longer race.
Very interesting. I was wondering about these two points, too... many thanks :-) -
I don't see why you would have to finish the race.
I do see why the time has to be taken from the start of the race and not start a distance mid stride. -
Star wrote:
I don't see why you would have to finish the race.
I do see why the time has to be taken from the start of the race and not start a distance mid stride.
Think of the 4x400.
Start in the blocks and run a world record 1st split- this counts.
2nd runner gets a running start- no record.
Longer races still have to follow the rules. -
Alternate Reality wrote:
Think of the 4x400.
Start in the blocks and run a world record 1st split- this counts.
I am virtually certain this is not the case in track and field, though it is in swimming. If nothing else, the three-turn stagger would present potential competitive targets that are not available in an open 400 (ignoring the whole difficulty of getting fully record-legal FAT splits on eight lanes).
And this competitive-target situation is why you have to finish the race in which you set a record at an intermediate distance. -
Star wrote:
I don't see why you would have to finish the race.
I do see why the time has to be taken from the start of the race and not start a distance mid stride.
because any distance past the start you had a running start which would not be allowed in a record attempt. Thus the start must be the beginning point of any record.
Example Bolt would have beaten his 100m record in his 200m record (I forget what time exactly his last 100m was in his 200m 19.19 but it was faster than his 9.58) -
The competitive target thing is pretty stupid.
It used to be a rule that the rabbit had to finish the race for any record set by the winner to count.
They changed that because it was just dumb to have rabbits lead and then jog to the finish.
To take it a step further, I don't see why it has to be a race at all if you have a starter and electronic timing for someone's personal time trial.
Alan Webb's American Record in the mile barely met the standard as a competition.
I don't think it was initially scheduled in the Belgium meet.
They grabbed a handful of guys. Had three rabbits. Two to take the lead and one to run behind him for as long as he could.
And I think they had a couple of guys finish to make it look like a race. -
For a time that ended in the mid-late 70's in which a distance runner could qualify for NCAA on the lead-off leg of a relay.
Old timers, am I remembering correctly? -
Gym Class Shuffle wrote:
Star wrote:
I don't see why you would have to finish the race.
I do see why the time has to be taken from the start of the race and not start a distance mid stride.
because any distance past the start you had a running start which would not be allowed in a record attempt. Thus the start must be the beginning point of any record.
Example Bolt would have beaten his 100m record in his 200m record (I forget what time exactly his last 100m was in his 200m 19.19 but it was faster than his 9.58)
Good job explaining to him the thing that he said he already understood... -
he got that... wrote:
Gym Class Shuffle wrote:
Star wrote:
I don't see why you would have to finish the race.
I do see why the time has to be taken from the start of the race and not start a distance mid stride.
because any distance past the start you had a running start which would not be allowed in a record attempt. Thus the start must be the beginning point of any record.
Example Bolt would have beaten his 100m record in his 200m record (I forget what time exactly his last 100m was in his 200m 19.19 but it was faster than his 9.58)
Good job explaining to him the thing that he said he already understood...
Thanks, im hoping the free college bernie gives me will help with my reading comprehension -
he got that... wrote:
Gym Class Shuffle wrote:
Star wrote:
I don't see why you would have to finish the race.
I do see why the time has to be taken from the start of the race and not start a distance mid stride.
because any distance past the start you had a running start which would not be allowed in a record attempt. Thus the start must be the beginning point of any record.
Example Bolt would have beaten his 100m record in his 200m record (I forget what time exactly his last 100m was in his 200m 19.19 but it was faster than his 9.58)
Good job explaining to him the thing that he said he already understood...
Alternate Reality also tried to correct him. I had to go back and read it twice to be sure I wasn't missing something. -
Back in 81 Coe made an attempt on both 1500m and mile world records in the same race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lL0T6iVwAM&t=3m40s -
just the facts wrote:
For a time that ended in the mid-late 70's in which a distance runner could qualify for NCAA on the lead-off leg of a relay.
Old timers, am I remembering correctly?
I can't imagine that happening.
I could understand how an 800m runner could conceivably run a qualifying time as a leadoff of the 4X800.
But the relay split and the leadoff runners actual time would be different.
You normally handoff before getting to the line.
The split is then taken when the outgoing runner crosses the line wit h the baton.
To get a time for the leadoff runner you would have to stop the clock when that runner crossed the line, which may be a smidge after the official split would be taken of the outgoing runner crossing the line.
You need a separate watch to officially time the leadoff runner and that runner would then have to run through the line after handing off. -
Star wrote:
I can't imagine that happening.
I could understand how an 800m runner could conceivably run a qualifying time as a leadoff of the 4X800.
I agree with what you say. A split is actually timing the baton, not the runner. I entered college in the late 70's and was told by older teammates that a lead-off 4 X 800 runner could qualify in the open 800 if fast enough. This happened while they were in school, so mid-70's?
Can anyone who was there confirm/deny this? -
You're wrong about relay spilits. They are taken when the runner crosses the midway line of the passing zone.
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Dain Bramage wrote:
You're wrong about relay spilits. They are taken when the runner crosses the midway line of the passing zone.
Incorrect! There are times the incoming runner does not even get to the line. The fact that so few understand split times is why they are so unreliable. The baton is timed, not who is carrying it. -
Dain Bramage wrote:
You're wrong about relay spilits. They are taken when the runner crosses the midway line of the passing zone.
The baton is timed. True story.
