How Many of You are Now Going to Try Tinman's Training Plans of Critical Velocity?

Some unanswered questions wrote:

He doesn't talk about hard/easy cycles or recovery days. Seems his 90% method is applied to distance runs. I'd like to know how his method can be used by 800m runners.

Agree, that would be interesting. Has he trained in 800m runners? Im sure he thinks they should train differently.

Thanks for your reply. The model was a lacate pro. To my memory, the readings were always very low and they did not change - around 0.5 regardless of effort I was running. I bought fresh test strips and still had the same problem. I tested a friend's meter and this gave readings that did change so his seemed to work.

I could not get an exchange as I purchased the meter from Japan - when I emailed them they told be to change the strips.

I do think that the meter can be a useful means of checking intensity if it works and I do think that a lot of training by runners and coaches in Europe is too hit and miss leading to a lot of hard work with suboptimal results and subsequent frustration with the sport. I just did not manage to find a way of using one in a convenient manner - this is a priority when you are an amateur runner with little spare time.

Maybe I might try to buy another one and use larger needles but the experience was frustrating for me ...

Sounds weird, never heard of that. Either something wrong with that one or wrong strips like they said.

0.5-1.5 is what you have all the time.

Heres a few great ways to use it:

Test how much lactate you are able to produce during very hard workouts. A high number is good. Probably only useful for 400/800 runners.

To see if youre on treshold or are training to hard. Its usual that after a time of using it to this purpose you'll better feel when youre at treshold and when youre above.

In Scandinavia its used a lot, at least the 10 last years the use have increased very much. I don't know what distances you are running or how serious you are, but I would suggest giving it another shot. Something else, its pretty fun to use when you get it going. If you still struggle with blood, swing your arm a few times. Always remember to swipe off the first blood that comes out, as it may contain sweat.

And Carlos Lopes used to do the same 4 x 2000 workout, so maybe the Ethiopians stole it from Portugal.

Had you ever actually coached, you would know that there is more to it than lifting workouts from some other plan.

Hunter is doing what he is doing because he has talent and he's getting good advice. His parents are not exactly ignorant about running; indeed, they have done a lot better competitively than you ever did. They are perfectly capable of assessing Tinman's advice, and they seem to think it's good.

I believe it is based on max vo2 so it is only specific to the individual.

d coach wrote:

His parents are not exactly ignorant about running; indeed, they have done a lot better competitively than you ever did. They are perfectly capable of assessing Tinman's advice, and they seem to think it's good.

Joan Hunter (W40 400 in 62.73, 5th, in her first nationals.

You are joking right. She's a 400/800 runner and she gets his advice to run a 62 400. She went to the wrong guy.

I'm not discounting Tinman's ability to coach, but there is a correlation between the last three, sub-4 high school milers...genetics. Hunter, Fisher and Maton all had highly successful running parents. Most kids don't have great coaches, some succeed because of the environment, some succeed in spite of it...just sayin!

Webb 3:53, Hunter 3:57, both coached by the Hunters. But it is a coincidence?

I don't think so.

Mary Cain was actually running a lot slower reps with John Henwood coaching her when she was at her best and before she left for Oregon and began to have troubles. Salazar commented specifically back then that he couldn't believe how fast she was racing based on how slow she was running her intervals. In other words, she was not breaking herself down in workouts like she did out in Oregon (as we have heard in the past). Returning to easier reps of this form, plus adjusting to physical maturity and getting her confidence back, will be keys to her return to form.

Nevermind wrote:

Both tinman and Fisher's coach have shown that if you have a great talent and don't fry them on a intervals, instead doing consistent aerobic development, said talent will improve for years. So simple in principle, so hard to apply with proper restraint.

Hey you forgot Matthew Maton's high school coaches ....oh yeah, they are "the other guys".

So, lactate? wrote:

Whats the wobble board mentioned earlier?

.

If you've ever had knee surgery you would have probably come across a wobble board during PT. Basically it's a, wooden disk with a half rubber ball glued to one side. You stand on disk on one leg and balance. All of your small muscles around your foot, ankle, knee and hips are in a constant state of contraction and relaxation. It strengthens your muscles around the joints, especially at the distal connections near the tendons.

malmo wrote:

So, lactate? wrote:

Whats the wobble board mentioned earlier?

.

If you've ever had knee surgery you would have probably come across a wobble board during PT. Basically it's a, wooden disk with a half rubber ball glued to one side. You stand on disk on one leg and balance. All of your small muscles around your foot, ankle, knee and hips are in a constant state of contraction and relaxation. It strengthens your muscles around the joints, especially at the distal connections near the tendons.

Understood. Thank you.

OK thanks for your reply. I noticed later in my career that when I reduced the intensity of "hard" workouts and tried to relax and ran them more by feel keeping a good form that my times improved over 1500m to 5000m- i actually threw away the stopwatch for virtually all of my track workouts. The whole experience seemed counterintuitive and this is why some of the posts in this thread interested me.

When I bought the lacate meter 8 years ago, I was running cross 12km, and 10km on the road and was trying to get a bit more accuracy to monitor my training but it was not possible to get it to work and I had no time to get it sorted out. I am older now, in my early forties and currently injured for several months but I am still serious when healthy. I may have another go if healthy again.

I've started introducing a few more work-outs along these lines. I always seemed to improve more training at 10kish pace and more consistently but being aware of the VO2 max tended to try and focus on 5k pace or even faster.

Will see what the results are...

I'll be trying them this base phase. So is 4 x 1500m @ CV / 90s a proper basic CV workout? How about a CV paced tempo, is that a thing, and how long should I make that?

I did something similar this year with my hs guys. We started to do a lot of tempo pace running broken up into intervals, and our Vo2 days more or less turned into what appears to be CV pace half the time but I let the kids slide as long as the times were improving during the races, which they were. I certainly don't think that the CV pace stuff is the magic bullet, but I think something could be said for just steady, high end aerobic intervals with decent volume. It was good enough to get one of my guys to NXN after finishing runner-up at regions and I think not making them go to the well that often in practice made a difference.

only if you're running 1500 in 4:30 and are a 30-minute 10K guy ... otherwise that's not enough rest

Meb FTW wrote:

I'll be trying them this base phase. So is 4 x 1500m @ CV / 90s a proper basic CV workout? How about a CV paced tempo, is that a thing, and how long should I make that?

fred wrote:

d coach wrote:

His parents are not exactly ignorant about running; indeed, they have done a lot better competitively than you ever did. They are perfectly capable of assessing Tinman's advice, and they seem to think it's good.

Joan Hunter (W40 400 in 62.73, 5th, in her first nationals.

You are joking right. She's a 400/800 runner and she gets his advice to run a 62 400. She went to the wrong guy.

You do realize that Drew's dad was a DI All-American and made US World XC teams. I think he might know a thing, or two, about training.

JAD wrote:

fred wrote:

Joan Hunter (W40 400 in 62.73, 5th, in her first nationals.

You are joking right. She's a 400/800 runner and she gets his advice to run a 62 400. She went to the wrong guy.

You do realize that Drew's dad was a DI All-American and made US World XC teams. I think he might know a thing, or two, about training.

Yeah, he might, and his wife might not like hearing it.

JAD wrote:

You do realize that Drew's dad was a DI All-American and made US World XC teams. I think he might know a thing, or two, about training.

2 and a half minutes behind John Treacy at 7.5 miles world cross