Is Rupp's performance the greatest ever by an American?

I think AlSal's debut was the best debut by an American ever.

Cleary stupid wrote:

Rupp2016 wrote:

I think if that happens, the answer is yes without even a debate. 3:50 mile, sub 13 and 27, Olympic silver at 10k, a billion US titles... if he adds a marathon medal to that list, I think it is a done deal.

After today and you add up the titles and times he is the greatest american distance runner. Even living in the era of a great Meb he surpasses all.

He showed today he is at an entire different level over any american marathoner.He has the ability to win a major and to get a medal.

I totally concur. This was the first 2:11 tempo run in heat that I've ever seen an American execute. This did not fatigure him at all --- I think he'll be totally ready for World Indoors ... perhaps even more aggressive given confidence in his strength. Rupp was capable of a 2:09 or even high 2:08 yesterday.

I've got no argument agains the idea that Rupp has not won a major race, but I've read this statement many times about the "watered-down" competition of the London 10km. Weren't the best runners in the world in that race? Wasn't the world record holder in that race? (Yes, you'll tell me he wasn't 100% - but he was, in fact, the WR holder, correct?) A silver in the Olympics - in the "African era" is an exceptional achievment.

When Shorter won the marathon in '72 the Africans had barely come on the scene; I don't consider his victory watered-down in any way as he beat the best that the world had to offer on that day; Galen beat all but one in 2012 - and the level of competition in 2012 is FAR greater than it was in 1972.

Meb's Athens medal is also a phenomenal achievement and his major marathon performances also give him great value in this discussion, but I simply don't believe that Meb's medal trumps Galen's medal - just because YOU say the competition was watered down.

TimothyHender wrote:

Why don't we cool all the Rupp talk until Salazar is cleared? You people...

Why don't we continue to support our best distance runner until he's proven guilty?

Let's fear the worst and hope for the best and treat Rupp like the dominant American that he's been over the last four years or so...

wunschehausen wrote:

Rupp is also a prolific PED user who has been implicated by a former NOP insider who presented proof of his allegations.

How can we praise a cheat?

Well, according to USADA and WADA he hasn't been implicated.

If he is charged at a later date we can re-visit this discussion.

But wasn't Frank's win before east Africans started to put a lot of effort into the marathon? (because of large prize money)

Meb beat the world record holder less than a year after he set the world record.

ramxc wrote:

TimothyHender wrote:

Why don't we cool all the Rupp talk until Salazar is cleared? You people...

Why don't we continue to support our best distance runner until he's proven guilty?

Let's fear the worst and hope for the best and treat Rupp like the dominant American that he's been over the last four years or so...

What's accomplished doing this?

The GOAT!! GOAT!! Oh, wait..

We've pretty much been here already. Nike leading the way every time.

ramxc wrote:

TimothyHender wrote:

Why don't we cool all the Rupp talk until Salazar is cleared? You people...

Why don't we continue to support our best distance runner until he's proven guilty?

Let's fear the worst and hope for the best and treat Rupp like the dominant American that he's been over the last four years or so...

I think it's legitimate to hold off on GOAT talk until the Goucher-Magness case comes to an end, at the very least.

I will be the first to say that he is the GOAT American distance runner (10,000+) if he wins a Gold in Rio and this doping talk all turns out to be a big misunderstanding.

If you look at the carnage in both the men's and women's fields, it is hard to overrate this performance. It isn't close to the greatest ever by an American. And it is just hard to say where it rates because different people were affected differently and then who knows how many of the marathoners, out of contention decided to save themselves for a payday marathon this spring. Still, you have to think that Rupp could have run 2:06 or better with comp/pacers/weather and a course like Berlin or Rotterdam.

I'm just wondering how much faster he could run if his ears were more aerodynamic

Rupp's performance was about equivelent to Ritz's Beijing Olympic performance in 2008. 2:11 on hot conditions. Ritz ran better in Beijing than Rupp did at the OT, considering temps were in the 80s in Beijing.

It'd be between him and Lagat.

No way! It's a good performance...but it's overshadowed by the 40 year old just a little over a minute behind!

Uh, no. He only beat the first master by about a minute, only one spot.

The greatest ever performance by an American, concerning marathons, is Salazar's 1981 NYC win in 2:08.13.

Absolutely no comparison any more to what he did, when that record had stood 13 years, and was seemingly invincible. And the fact that he was only one year removed from the impossible, a 2:09 by a first-timer. And that, in doing this, he would clearly bypass Rodgers, who was king at the time.

You have to understand that there was only one 2:08 time prior to Salazar's run, and only a very, very few low 2:09s. This was rarified air.

The Dirty Duck wrote:... this doping talk all turns out to be a big misunderstanding.

The IAAF thanks you for your undying faith in their obviously corrupted sport. Where can we send an xxs Nike singlet as thanks?

GrindTTU wrote:

But wasn't Frank's win before east Africans started to put a lot of effort into the marathon? (because of large prize money)

The Kenyans and Ethiopians were there. In fact, one of them took the bronze that day.

If we're not going to hold having to compete in their era against them (and why should we) then Jim Lightbody may be the greatest - he has the best Olympic record.

If we're not going to include the pre-WWII era, then, arguably, the answer is Shorter. Gold and Silver (possibly should have been two golds...), won what was the world championship of marathoning 4 straight years (Fukuoka 71-74) multiple US XC champion, 5th in the Munich 10,000, multiple US record holder etc etc.

IF Rupp wins two medals in Rio, come back here and we can re-open the conversation. Until then, he's in the second tier of US Olympic medalists: He has one medal and one US record.

ramxc

I've got no argument agains the idea that Rupp has not won a major race, but I've read this statement many times about the "watered-down" competition of the London 10km. Weren't the best runners in the world in that race? Wasn't the world record holder in that race? (Yes, you'll tell me he wasn't 100% - but he was, in fact, the WR holder, correct?) A silver in the Olympics - in the "African era" is an exceptional achievment.

Being the world record holder is irrelevant if he wasn't in world record shape. The competition was weak and has been ever since about 2010. That is a fact. There is no "Africa era" in the 10000. In all of the other events, sure, but not the 10000. Arguably not even so much in 5000.