DREW HUNTER'S SECRET TO SUCCESS

It is.

running 10k pace intervals, with a few fast 200s at the end of workouts and lots of strides. That is what they have mentioned and it cannot, in my mind, even begin to account for his ability. I used to run 10k pace intervals when I had no one pushing me and I did not improve until I found people to push me in workouts and run at a much faster pace.

jjjjj wrote:

running 10k pace intervals, with a few fast 200s at the end of workouts and lots of strides. That is what they have mentioned and it cannot, in my mind, even begin to account for his ability. I used to run 10k pace intervals when I had no one pushing me and I did not improve until I found people to push me in workouts and run at a much faster pace.

We'll its both ability and coaching. When Tinman talks about CV training, he is referring to a foundational concept, in which his training is based. There is much more to his system and philosophy than just CV work with striders. Each person has a unique context, and that is where a great coach comes in. Doing the exact workouts that Drew does, would not work for everyone. There is a development process that has to occur. For example, how many and how long should the CV reps be? How frequently do you do them? What is your total mileage for a given week. How do you work in the other critical elements of training. How are you responding to the training? Are you running your workouts to fast? There is a lot that goes into a proper plan, based on the individual. I've read some posts about how anyone could coach Drew, and get similar results, which is just insane! Many might get some really good performances, but not like he is running now. Some coaches take all the fun out of running by always having them hammer the workouts, often times causing them to become injured, fatigued, and miss critical training and lose momentum. Many eventually, decide running just isn't worth it, because its to demanding, particularly doing it month after month. I would argue that many runners never come close to their potential because of a cycle of lost momentum. A good coach will control the intensity and number of reps to what fits a runner. Over the course of many months, if done right, a good runner can become a great runner. An average runner can become a good runner. But its about building layer after layer of endurance, and keeping the ball rolling. Not taking breaks frequently and having to start over.

Dont' believe it. His secret is scientific use of EPO (you can buy it online no questions asked) and possibly steroids. THis is how it all works now.

I would bet the house he is on PEDs, just like Webb was (who ran 3;55 in HS, yet couldn't break 4 mins in his 30s) and never won any race with rigid, international testing.

A few thoughts:

Knowledgeable coach with a plan of steady progression and long term development.

Coachable. Ability to follow and execute his coaches plan.

Competitive spirit. Able to go big when the pressure is on.

Mental focus.

AND has a training program that allows his talent to progress and shine on race day. This is going to pay HUGE DIVIDENDS once he gets to OREGON. His current training doesn't take too much out of him. Athletes that train this way, no matter the ability level, ALWAYS IMPROVE. The best part is they see a steady progression with their results and that keeps them hungry for more.

I still am amazed 30 years after the fact that people don't understand that some people are a 3:58 miler and some people are a 4:34 miler. Everyone has a physical potential, we cannot know for sure what that is. We can only know that it is at least as high as what we have done so far.

When I was 16 I was going to XC camps and running 70-85 mpw and when I came to school (in 4:28/9:30 shape) that year the other guys on the team wanted to know "How did you do it?" When I told them it was 70-85 mpw and weights three times per week and 300 pushups and 600 situps per day, a few of them decided to take up the regimen.

Three of them gave up halfway through the first 10 mile run and the other one gave up the second day.

But it wasn't "just" the training that made me. The training is what allowed me to reach my potential, but I still had a potential of 9:10. It is likely that I could have gone a little faster, but I could not have run 8:50 to save my life.

Hunter's potential seems to be somewhere faster than 3:58, 7:59m, 8:40, and maybe 13:45, but it is NOT magic training that got him there.

Don't you think that many HS runners for the last 60 years have wanted to be where he is? If you could just go through some specific Jim Ryun-like motions in training don't you think that there would be 10,000 sub-4 milers?

Expert Training Theorist wrote:

A few thoughts:

Knowledgeable coach with a plan of steady progression and long term development.

Coachable. Ability to follow and execute his coaches plan.

Competitive spirit. Able to go big when the pressure is on.

Mental focus.

AND has a training program that allows his talent to progress and shine on race day. This is going to pay HUGE DIVIDENDS once he gets to OREGON. His current training doesn't take too much out of him. Athletes that train this way, no matter the ability level, ALWAYS IMPROVE. The best part is they see a steady progression with their results and that keeps them hungry for more.

If you have 4:15 talent and apply all of these things that you claim he has, you will run 4:15. And that is really great if you do.

There are probably 1-2 HS students every year that can go sub-4, some years prob 1-2 that could go 4:02 and one of these students is not running track.

But you cannot run 3:58 if you don't have the talent. No more than I could run 10.05 for the 100m, no amount of training is going to get me there. The nature of aerobic training leads people to believe that "if I just train enough, or the right way, or if I follow this plan" I will be among the best. You won't.

Drew Hunter is running too many races.

Perhaps, unlike Jim Ryun, he will overcome it due to improved knowledge of training. What have our last 4 minute HS milers done? They have done nothing internationally.

We race too much and do too much interval training.

200s are interval training. He should be working on speed and long runs!

Take a break during seasons!

Webb won Paris as well as Pre. Don't talk to me about avoiding IAAF circuit races.

I don't think he's racing too much. He's raced twice since Footlocker and he has one mile race left indoors and maybe a national indoor hs meet? What I admire about the training plan he's on is that it is clearly leaving him fresh and allowing him, as they say, "to keep the ball rolling." They're right that too many hard intervals will burn you out or get you injured or sick in most cases. How workouts like 5-7 x 1k (200j) at 10k pace intervals prepare you to run 3:58/7:59, however, I have no idea.

Genetics. He was born with a high percentage of the type of muscle fibers that Tinman thinks his training converts from other types.

Plus his VO2 max is likely through the roof.

Hunter is definitely TALENTED. The difference maker is He has a TRAINING PROGRAM that will allow him to have STEADY PROGRESS/IMPROVEMENT NOW without killing himself in workouts. This pays off in the LONG TERM.

Consider it several years of base training. Every year adding more mileage and volume he will continue to improve. Steady improvement keeps you motivated.

Any ability level can train like this and improve.

jjjjj wrote:

How workouts like 5-7 x 1k (200j) at 10k pace intervals prepare you to run 3:58/7:59, however, I have no idea.

This is the part most people don't understand, and I didn't either until I went through the process and experienced it myself. Its counter-intuitive, but you can actually develop speed, without doing a bunch of "gut-buster" type workouts. You build endurance through the CV's, tempos, long runs, etc, and while your still somewhat fatigued, you do just enough striders, 100's, 200's, and some 300's to work on the speed side of things, but not much is needed.

I can't explain it in technical terms, but also as you run easy mileage, as your slow twitch fibers become exhausted, your fast twitch fibers become activated. Tinman has discussed this on his website. I never would have completely bought into this concept, without experiencing it first hand.

jjjjj wrote:

running 10k pace intervals, with a few fast 200s at the end of workouts and lots of strides. That is what they have mentioned and it cannot, in my mind, even begin to account for his ability. I used to run 10k pace intervals when I had no one pushing me and I did not improve until I found people to push me in workouts and run at a much faster pace.

LOL. Idiot looking for one workout that will make him reach his potential.

Expert Training Theorist wrote:

A few thoughts:

Knowledgeable coach with a plan of steady progression and long term development.

Coachable. Ability to follow and execute his coaches plan.

Competitive spirit. Able to go big when the pressure is on.

Mental focus.

AND has a training program that allows his talent to progress and shine on race day. This is going to pay HUGE DIVIDENDS once he gets to OREGON. His current training doesn't take too much out of him. Athletes that train this way, no matter the ability level, ALWAYS IMPROVE. The best part is they see a steady progression with their results and that keeps them hungry for more.

This^ However, you are wasting your time trying to explain it to people who prefer ready made excuses.

good genes+ hard work+ good coach= success

What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles; Miles of Trials.

Grant Fischer of Answers wrote:

WHAT IS IT???

If it's core, I can do that! If it's a coach, I can find one!

Just don't tell me it's genetics

QC wrote:

What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles; Miles of Trials

Bruce Denton was a regular at Quaker Steak & Lube.