"Cheaters Beware: This Guy Is on to You" - he has caught hundreds of cheats

they usually refuse to DQ wrote:

I reported one strange case to a RD once and they claimed "the runner could have done it". It had a missing timing mat and one ridiculous 5km split.

They did 22 minutes for the first 5k, followed by 18:30 minutes for the second 5k. The 18:30 section was out and back.

The RD said the runner could have done it and refused to DQ. The runner finished in 7:20 pace overall with a missing timing mat late in the race.

How many 7:20pace marathoners could do a sub 6:00 5k in the middle of a marathon! Not going to happen. Ever. I'm sure they cheated, but no one cares. It is subtle enough to fly under the radar.

So if it isn't ridiculous, the RDs won't DQ. The example above proves it.

I had the same experience in the Philadelphia Marathon around 10 years ago. I was running with the "top" female runner that just came off of the shorter half marathon runners loop to rejoin the main field (it was .7 less). They have since eliminated this split around the zoo possibly because they could not police it.

I just figured she was a half marathoner but she ran past the half finish line and continued on the marathon course. I watched her "win" the race and was sure she would be dq'd. I told the race officials and they gave me attitude about it. I looked at the chip mat split in the results after the race that she would have had to cross if she had run the Marathon loop around the zoo and of course her chip did not register.

I felt bad for the third and fourth place finishers and even let one of them know. I didn't feel so bad for number 2 because they were on the same team so I figured she probably knew and also might have done the same thing. I think she went away with around $3,500.

So years later I'm still bothered by the whole exchange. The race officials gave me an explanation about how she was some ultra champion somewhere. I'm sure she was.

you wonder why Rock 'n Roll and other entities don't allow bib transfers. running with someone's bib is so commonplace, mostly by people who don't know what athlinnks is and aren't winning age group awards or qualifying. The only reason for a race to not to facilitate bib transfers is greed. They want people to sign up. That's their number 1 incentive in putting on a race--registration. When did that become the spirit of running? Calling it cheating and hounding people like the Stasi is ridiculous.

they usually refuse to DQ wrote:

They did 22 minutes for the first 5k, followed by 18:30 minutes for the second 5k. The 18:30 section was out and back.

The RD said the runner could have done it and refused to DQ. The runner finished in 7:20 pace overall with a missing timing mat late in the race.

While that is suspicious it's not impossible. I could easily see someone start very conservative, then decide to pick it up a little and go way too fast, then eventually get dialed in to a more reasonable pace.

An early out and back would be tough to cut because the field hasn't really strung out yet, there would be a ton of witnesses.

Now hold on a minute wrote:

impressed wrote:

+1

Hmmmm.... he sounds like a stalker to me.

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

swaggyp wrote:

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

So if you did a race and were beaten by a cheater, you wouldn't care?

swaggyp wrote:

Now hold on a minute wrote:Hmmmm.... he sounds like a stalker to me.

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

I only participate in sports in which I don't care about others cheating.

Old Man Runner wrote:

swaggyp wrote:

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

So if you did a race and were beaten by a cheater, you wouldn't care?

It's reasonable to report someone in a race in which you participated, volunteered, or spectated.

It's not reasonable to comb through random race results, tell the RD someone cheated in the race, but then tell the RD that you aren't going to tell them who you think cheated.

Jon O Than wrote:

It's not reasonable to comb through random race results, tell the RD someone cheated in the race, but then tell the RD that you aren't going to tell them who you think cheated.

100% agree.

This article really pissed me off.

MM3307 wrote:...An early out and back would be tough to cut because the field hasn't really strung out yet, there would be a ton of witnesses.

I disagree. Although there certainly is more incentive to cheat later in a race when one is more tired, and possibly more opportunity to do so in races where runners get spread out, some people are going to look to cheat wherever they can.

Early in a race, on an out-and-back section, the easy way to do it would be to duck into a portolet, hang out for awhile, then when you exit run the way you came instead of completing that section. Real world example, the race I work for has an out-and-back section miles 3.7-8.4. There are portos at mile 5.2 (which is mile 6.8 on the way back). If somebody was running say 10:00 miles they would get to those portos just over 50:00 into the race, right when the 7:30/mile runners were coming back from the turnaround. Take a few minutes to do your business, then when you come out just blend in with the 7:30-8:30/mile runners and skip that 1.6 mile section. We have a mat and a camera at the turnaround so that we're able to check out suspicious early splits, catch someone now and then, but I'm sure some people slip through the cracks.

swaggyp wrote:

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

People who give a shit care, lots of people these days don't care and project their internal issues with that on to people who care whilst angrily insisting that this isn't what is going on.

He's probably cheating on his wife ...

he's gonna get caught.

otter wrote:...I had the same experience in the Philadelphia Marathon around 10 years ago...

Philly has been infamous for this for years. A guy I was coaching ran there around 2002. That out-and-back section, he said when he was coming back he witnessed a runner coming towards him bend down to tie his shoe, and when he stood up to start running again he turned around in front of my guy and started running to the finish, cut off a huge section. If you looked through their results, you'd see a bunch of runners who clearly cut, and when it was brought to the organizers' attention they didn't do anything about it. My impression is that they care more now, that they've changed their attitude somewhat.

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

swaggyp wrote:

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

People who give a shit care, lots of people these days don't care and project their internal issues with that on to people who care whilst angrily insisting that this isn't what is going on.

All of those weirdos stalking Mike Rossi on that very weird Mike Rossi stalking thread for very weird stalker weirdo types, that's who cares.

Oh, one other thing,,. Almost all the big negative or uneven split examples are legit cases of somebody who cut the course, but sometimes there is a valid explanation. Example, 2005 Philly Marathon, a college runner I was coaching, ran the first 10 miles with a friend at 8:30 pace then decided to take off. His splits were something like 1:48/1:32 // 3:22. A 16 minute negative split is something that will always catch our attention, but in this case he had plenty of results to show that the 1:32 was well within his abilities - in fact it was a lot slower than he had run before for 10k/half marathon.

He's the hero this country needs, not the hero we deserve

d2xccoach wrote:

Oh, one other thing,,. Almost all the big negative or uneven split examples are legit cases of somebody who cut the course, but sometimes there is a valid explanation. Example, 2005 Philly Marathon, a college runner I was coaching, ran the first 10 miles with a friend at 8:30 pace then decided to take off. His splits were something like 1:48/1:32 // 3:22. A 16 minute negative split is something that will always catch our attention, but in this case he had plenty of results to show that the 1:32 was well within his abilities - in fact it was a lot slower than he had run before for 10k/half marathon.

Yeah, I've done this a lot. It's very normal to pace a friend and then go off and do your run.

swaggyp wrote:

Now hold on a minute wrote:Hmmmm.... he sounds like a stalker to me.

dude sounds like a loser.... do people actually care?

People do care and should care. I've been at the front of races on an out and back; some of the cheating is just so bad. If you ever talk to people about it later; 'I wanted my medal', is always the response. Races should go back to only giving medal to the winners and not the medal whores.

Mosquito wrote:

Races should go back to only giving medal to the winners and not the medal whores.

The can be only one winner in a race. Stop giving out medals to others and watch the sport die.

people care. What if you missed a significant position in the marathon, like bumped from top whatever list in your age group or top list overall?

Look up Bib #962 for the Seattle Marathon 2015---the December one. A 40 year old runner that completed 4.5 miles at a sub 5:00 pace? Impressive. Except They missed most timing mats for the race and finished 3hours 50 minutes or so. What if they finished ahead of you?

This same runner managed to finish in 2014 without passing over A SINGLE MAT except the last one!!! No DQ.

Race directors aren't checking. Sad really.