Genetics matter - Identical twins run in US Olympic marathon trials all the time, siblings hardly ever

The other guy! wrote:

come on now wrote:

Tariku was absolutely world class. Had there been a world champs in 2010 he would have won. He beat out his brother for a medal in 2012.

Give me a break. His PR for the 10,000 is over 27min. Put into perspective, Kenny would have almost lapped him.

He sucks a little less in the 5,000 but still never broke 12:50.

In terms of Ethiopian runner, he is an "also-ran".

You don't have a clue what defines world class. Tariku is 100 percent positively world class.

Identical twins are just superior humans. Most people cannot handle this truth.

Correct.

Identical Twin wrote:

Identical twins are just superior humans. Most people cannot handle this truth.

Twins are siblings

asdfads wrote:

The other guy! wrote:

One of them is world class, the other one is not.

Kinda proves the point that rojo was making.

Mo Farah has an identical twin brother - he never ran though, despite having the same talent. Crazy to think about.

So 7:28, 12:52, 3rd in WXC, 1st in the indoor 3k, and 3rd in the olympic 10k isn't world class? I think what you want to say is one the is one of the top 5 distance runners of all time. The other is only in the top 100 or so.

At the tiny sliver of the top of the sport, it's a razor's difference between top 5 and top 100. It may look like a big difference in an event like the 10k but it's not. It's also a matter of getting in the right lightning strike of a race where a lot of guys that are that fit really go big for the whole race in order to run super fast times. Championship races are rarely run that way.

Genetics is a start but the environment and training have to be there too. Do they have the same training history? Injuries? Illnesses? Motivation?

You do realize boy/girl twins can never be identical correct? The are fraternal twins... Starting from two separate eggs.

Identical twins are always same sex and come from a single egg that splits.

You should know this being a twin....

I once dated a identical twin. She was slow and so was her sister.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

not an answer wrote:

The point is if your identical twin is in the Olympic trials, it's more likely that you are as well.

The point is NOT that identical twins make the trials more often than non twins.

It does not prove this at all. You are still lacking any underlying data. How many people with an identical twin have run (but whose twin hasn't)?

The only contrary evidence is a lack of brother-sister combos. Are there brother/brother combos? Sister/sister combos?

Rojo has no understanding of statistics.

Rojo and 'not an answer' are correct. The statistic demonstrates that individuals with a twin in the Olympic Trials are far more likely to be in it themselves than if they don't have a twin in the Olympic Trials. The assertion is that even controlling for factors such as likelihood of both doing the same sport etc the difference is still tremendous.

Think of it this way (I'm slightly guessing at figures but this will demonstrate my point): of ~2000 participants, 8 have had a twin in the same race. So 4 twin pairs. Now a few people ran the race have twins but their twin didn't run. Maybe 20 I don't know. But... It's amazing that 4 of 20 siblings of twins ran in the trials. So if you have a twin running the trials you have a 1/5 chance of doing so yourself. Doesn't matter if it's 1/100 or 1/2, it's still way higher than for any random person.

The connection, naturally, is having identical genetics.

From a twin??? wrote:

You do realize boy/girl twins can never be identical correct? The are fraternal twins...

Bigotry. One of them may identify as being of some other gender.

rojo wrote:

We just put a RRW story about how Brendan and Katlin Gregg Goodman will become the first brother-sister combo compete at same US Olympic Marathon Trials since 1984.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/02/brendan-katlin-gregg-goodman-will-become-first-brother-sister-combo-compete-us-olympic-marathon-trials-since-1984/

During that time frame, at least 4 sets of identical twins (same genes) have done so.

So there you have it, genetics are huge to running.

neat report. but the right genetics can come from no where. two nerd parents can have a superstar kid. shakespeare did not come from a long line of fantastic writers and his kids have nothing in the literature. there is no evolution via genetics science, music, invention, anything really.

so don't get hung up on genetics.

The other guy! wrote:

come on now wrote:

Tariku was absolutely world class. Had there been a world champs in 2010 he would have won. He beat out his brother for a medal in 2012.

Give me a break. His PR for the 10,000 is over 27min. Put into perspective, Kenny would have almost lapped him.

He sucks a little less in the 5,000 but still never broke 12:50.

In terms of Ethiopian runner, he is an "also-ran".

In terms of the sport, you're clueless

longjack wrote:

rojo wrote:

We just put a RRW story about how Brendan and Katlin Gregg Goodman will become the first brother-sister combo compete at same US Olympic Marathon Trials since 1984.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/02/brendan-katlin-gregg-goodman-will-become-first-brother-sister-combo-compete-us-olympic-marathon-trials-since-1984/

During that time frame, at least 4 sets of identical twins (same genes) have done so.

So there you have it, genetics are huge to running.

neat report. but the right genetics can come from no where. two nerd parents can have a superstar kid. shakespeare did not come from a long line of fantastic writers and his kids have nothing in the literature. there is no evolution via genetics science, music, invention, anything really.

so don't get hung up on genetics.

I think there is more evidence that some genetics (or innate) aspects play a role in athletics than in music or writing or other intellectual pursuits.

The other guy! wrote:

Haz Bin wrote:

Kenenisa and Tariku Bekele aren't twins.

One of them is world class, the other one is not.

No, one of them is an all-time great, and the other is world class.

If you wanted to look at genetics you'd compare identical twins to same sex fraternal twins. To further decrease environmental effects you would limit it to twins raised in the same household, attended same schools... Otherwise you are adding environment into the mixture. Siblings have different experiences- teachers, peer groups, exposures to influences at different ages..

StatNerd wrote:

If you wanted to look at genetics you'd compare identical twins to same sex fraternal twins. To further decrease environmental effects you would limit it to twins raised in the same household, attended same schools... Otherwise you are adding environment into the mixture. Siblings have different experiences- teachers, peer groups, exposures to influences at different ages..

Studies on twins separated during WWII show a surprising (okay I was surprised) number of commonalities such as interests, likes and dislikes. Most of this was psychological and not physical as that was the interest at the time.

Some of the twins were separated with one going into the English countryside and the other going to Canada.

rojo wrote:

We just put a RRW story about how Brendan and Katlin Gregg Goodman will become the first brother-sister combo compete at same US Olympic Marathon Trials since 1984.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/02/brendan-katlin-gregg-goodman-will-become-first-brother-sister-combo-compete-us-olympic-marathon-trials-since-1984/

During that time frame, at least 4 sets of identical twins (same genes) have done so.

So there you have it, genetics are huge to running.

Obviously a joke...made me laugh anyway.

Just as a note, many of us probably know of sets of identical twins who werer good at running. For me in Ohio when I was in high school, it was Mike and Ted Nelson who finished 3rd and 4th (if I remember correctly) in the Large School Division (AAA) state CC meet. They were great. I also had a set of identical twins who were pole valuters on my HS track team -- they sucked bad.

identical twins are also more likely to live in very similar environments and have very similar mindsets. If one is born to love running and goes to a school with a great program then so does the other a lot of the time. Im not arguing that genetics aren't a key factor but to think identical twins both competing at a high level is proof of that then you're just seeing what you want to see

he was also a World Champion (indoors). so there's that.