A Finnish paper published an article in 1983 stating that Seb Coe dropped out of World Championships to avoid a doping positive

LetsRun.com wrote:

Here is a translated version of the article:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iltasanomat.fi%2Fyleisurheilu%2Fart-1452839680383.html&edit-text=

can you contact the author of the article, then source the brits that supply the information about coe?

i think coe definitely used meds and such, whatever the doc or sports medicine guru prescribed.

and this is the core issue of doping. if you have big bucks, you can cheat legally, knowing every loop hole, how much to microdose, take a drug not on the schedule, etc.

the more doping rules you make, the less chance the clean athlete without sponsorship can win.

eurodonkey wrote:

The exception was the Easterm European countries who had state funding and pressure to get Olympic medals. But the only tool they had was the steroids, and those worked better on the women than the men.

What about the Italians? (National doping program)

What about the Americans? (Never testing positive)

Cyclists were doing transfusions in 1984 and that's the definition of a minor sport.

Apparently it takes even fewer resources now.

Cheeserk Slices wrote:

TruthSayer wrote:

They say the 800m is the least dopable event for a reason. It's run on pure rage, not dope.

800 runners can be helped by EPO. People keep repeating the same broscience bunk over and over again.

The 800 should be more enhanced by EPO than any other distance because the demands for intramuscular gas exchange is higher than in any other race. It is all-out, full-bore, all engines full ahead.

People say that it's more anaerobic and less aerobic than longer distances, but it's actually more anaerobic and more aerobic. Maximum oxygen consumption is reached when muscle pH gets very low.

I can easily believe there were rumors inside the British team about Coe's last-minute drop out. After all, the British Olympic team had their own steroid doctor, Jimmy Ledingham, from 1979 to 1987, who provided steroids, advice, and monitored their effects (according to a Sunday Times article referred in "Drugs, Alcohol and Sport: A Critical History).

Now, what actually happened (if anything) is too confused to really know anything about, since the only source is a paragraph in a 30-year old news article in a Finnish newspaper (with a language barrier going both ways) from a time when the media understood something about steroids but had almost no idea about why blood doping was effective (the misconception was that blood was "exchanged" with fresh new blood, providing some unclear benefit)

It could be that Coe was just an innocent target of gossip, perhaps by someone who put the knowledge of steroid checks and the sudden drop-out together.

It could be that Coe transfused blood that still had traces of an earlier steroid course (similar to what happened to Martti Vainio in 1984).

It could be that Coe took a late, risky course of steroids to try to recover from his injury - linked or not to a botched blood transfusion (similar to what happened to Ben Johnson in 1988).

It could be something completely different.

What is not unclear or confused is the fact that there was quite widespread doping in British athletics in the 1980s. Over the past 30 years there have been any number of exposes and articles and books about the period, but still it seems like it comes as a surprise to many that the Brits could ever dope.

The exact translation of the main information in the original article would be: "It is said that a blood doping was administered to Coe, but it went wrong... There were too much wrong medicines still found when it was decided who would be members of the final British team". Perhaps it refers to traces of steroids in the reinfused blood. While I am somewhat sceptical about the "echo-positive"-phenomenom except for substances where there is no clear threshold for a positive sample (Contador/clenbuterol), there could be a possibility that a needle missing the vein during reinfusion could cause a large bruse where steroids would remain even weeks unfiltered by the body.Just as a curiosity, the Coe-related gossip wasn't limited to Finns by no means. Italian leftist-oriented newspaper L'Unità for instance has this to say about Coe in an article on blood doping controversy during the 1983 games, a day before Finns had their "inside information" published:

L'Unità, 8/12/1983

Carmelo Bosco resta invece fermo sull'idea che la ritrasfusione sia lecita sul piano e del tutto non dannosa, anche se sconsiglia la trasfusione totale o parziale di sangue perchè può portare con sè germi e virus. È propenso anche ad scludere che il doppio attacco di mononucleosi che ha colpito Sebastian Coe sia da imputare a emodoping. "Per me - sostiene - l'inglese non si sottopone all' "emodoping" perchè ormai gli 800 metri sono da considerare gara di velocità prolungata e non di mezzofondo".

(Carmelo Bosco being a famous Italian exercise physiologist residing in Finland). I am far from fluent in Italian and Google-translator seems to produce some irregularities, so I don't go into publishing a wrong translation of the paragraph. Most LR readers would appreciate if a native Italian reader could help to translate the relevant parts.

If anyone tries to figure out the sentence with a web-translator, the second sentence of the quote should start like this: " È propenso anche ad escludere..."

Pat Butcher's excellent book Staying The Distance about the rivalry between Coe and Ovett provides some detail on the build up to the 83 world champs. Coe had had a dreadful year, he'd already pulled out of the 1500m (and probably wouldn't have made the team anyway - Cram, Ovett and Williamson were all running faster) and he then pulled out of the 800m after finishing fourth in a race in Gateshead (won by Cram).

Butcher directly asked Coe (and Ovett) about the rumours of blood doping

Here's a couple of quotes....

"Coe’s time in the USA prior to such an astounding turnaround in fortunes in Los Angeles has given rise to more sinister rumours, too: that he went there to blood dope. He denies it, and says that he suffered those rumours every time he went training at altitude in Switzerland or Italy."

"Coe says, ‘I used to hear those rumours: “Oh, he goes to Switzerland, to Italy, for his blood.” I used to laugh it off, and Steve [Mitchell] and Malcolm [Williams] were mainly with me in Switzerland. I’m afraid it’s the sadness of sport. This is where you’ve got to be so careful about pointing fingers at people making big breakthroughs, because only in public terms is it a big breakthrough. In reality, you’ve been slogging away, mile after mile, weight after weight, ten years at a time.’"

I always believed that Ovett was the last clean great British miler.

“Don Catlin, the director of the Los Angeles laboratory responsible for the 1984 Olympic drug testing, has said that nine positive tests were never reported. Catlin confirmed a BBC television report which claimed the documentation was destroyed.

The largest number of tests - 157 - were taken on the day before the Olympics ended. The positives were said to be from the final two days of competition, which included the men's 1500m, marathon and shot, women's discus and 100m hurdles, and the boxing finals.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/athletics-olympic-cover-up-1385896.html

“According to Kammerer, five of the tests were for anabolic steroids; the others were for testosterone and ephedrine”

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wi2d4YyLh3wC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=nine+positive+tests+were+never+reported&source=bl&ots=pbmVFaUTZL&sig=XB5dRhTJUMsICcFpXf4IHW61IjQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVnfi0gcPKAhXKRSYKHQosBCMQ6AEIOTAD#v=onepage&q=nine%20positive%20tests%20were%20never%20reported&f=false

Sebastian Coe won the gold medal in the 1500m at the 1984 Olympic games.

1000 wrote:

“Don Catlin, the director of the Los Angeles laboratory responsible for the 1984 Olympic drug testing, has said that nine positive tests were never reported. Catlin confirmed a BBC television report which claimed the documentation was destroyed.

The largest number of tests - 157 - were taken on the day before the Olympics ended. The positives were said to be from the final two days of competition, which included the men's 1500m,

Sebastian Coe won the gold medal in the 1500m at the 1984 Olympic games.

No shit Sherlock!

That must mean he was one of the 9 out of the thousands of possible candidates.

Seems obvious that the Anericans would purposely cover up for a Brit, doesn't it?

More likely those positives that mysteriously disappeared in US laboratories were those from US athletes.

You are somewhat heavy handed with what we know about Jimmy Ledngham. You make it sound like his official job description was that of steroid doctor for the British team! For a start he was Scottish, and the only names I've read or heard of associated with his steroid supplying are a handful of Scottish sprinters. The BBC Panorama programme that made accusations against Salazar last year, dealt with Ledingham and the accusations that he supplied steroids to a small group of Scottish based athletes. One sprinter, whose name escapes me at moment, has admitted to taking steroids supplied by Ledingham, and also accused Alan Wells of being a patient.

Ledinghham was one of many doctors associated with the British national squad in the 70's and 80's. At no point has it been claimed or even suggested that he was supplying drugs to the entire team! It has only been claimed that a few within the team saw him privately for steroids.

Another case of a poster on here taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5!

Reposting this for the passionate deniers.This is a very good summary.

118 118 wrote:

1000 wrote:

“Don Catlin, the director of the Los Angeles laboratory responsible for the 1984 Olympic drug testing, has said that nine positive tests were never reported. Catlin confirmed a BBC television report which claimed the documentation was destroyed.

The largest number of tests - 157 - were taken on the day before the Olympics ended. The positives were said to be from the final two days of competition, which included the men's 1500m,

Sebastian Coe won the gold medal in the 1500m at the 1984 Olympic games.

No shit Sherlock!

That must mean he was one of the 9 out of the thousands of possible candidates.

Seems obvious that the Anericans would purposely cover up for a Brit, doesn't it?

More likely those positives that mysteriously disappeared in US laboratories were those from US athletes.

much more likely to have been Said Aouita than Seb Coe

I am not commenting on the "story" but your additions to the thread are wrong. In 1984, all the members of the Olympic Cycling team were offered the chance to blood dope for the Games. Not all of them took them up on it, but several did and all of them were "outed" after the Games. It was facilitated by the Olympic coaching staff (Ed Burke and Eddie Borzewics) and the help of some doctors. They didn't have to pay anything.

So, you can dope in the '80s (or earlier for that matter) on a small budget. Amateur Bodybuilders can afford the steroids, athletes who don't make any money off their sport.

Also, after Hal Connolly died, some interviews came out where he was asked, “It’s all timing. If you’d been born later, taken steroids, you could have won a few more gold medals.”

You can see the response here:

So if people in the HAMMER THROW , in 1960 were using steroids. Even when they weren't winning any Olympic medals, then anybody in America (even distance runners) could afford steroids, among other things.

You are wrong that only people who had "already made it to the top" could afford drugs. Guys (and girls) in the '70s and '80s made $2000, $3000, even $10000 (for someone like Rodgers or Shorter) at road races big and small.

How do I know? I was there to see the Meyers and the Lindsays of the world open their brown paper bags, and open a few dozen of my own.

uh oh...

118 118 wrote:

1000 wrote:

“Don Catlin, the director of the Los Angeles laboratory responsible for the 1984 Olympic drug testing, has said that nine positive tests were never reported. Catlin confirmed a BBC television report which claimed the documentation was destroyed.

The largest number of tests - 157 - were taken on the day before the Olympics ended. The positives were said to be from the final two days of competition, which included the men's 1500m,

Sebastian Coe won the gold medal in the 1500m at the 1984 Olympic games.

No shit Sherlock!

That must mean he was one of the 9 out of the thousands of possible candidates.

Seems obvious that the Anericans would purposely cover up for a Brit, doesn't it?

More likely those positives that mysteriously disappeared in US laboratories were those from US athletes.

National boundaries aren't really what's important.

We know from the Salt Lake City games that the IOC would never test positive anyone that could possibly damage the IOC brand.

Some are asking how Rogge could award extra gold medals in the skating before an inquiry had been completed but allow three cross-country skiers who tested positive for drugs to keep their medals because they had passed tests earlier in the games.

Maybe Rogge knew nothing, like Coe?

118 118 wrote:

Ledinghham was one of many doctors associated with the British national squad in the 70's and 80's. At no point has it been claimed or even suggested that he was supplying drugs to the entire team! It has only been claimed that a few within the team saw him privately for steroids.

Another case of a poster on here taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5!

Doctor works for elite athlete program and hands out PED's to national team members.... But it's not a national doping program... It's not a team-wide program even though it was made available to team members.

I know, I know... More people in very high places knew nothing absolutely nothing of it..

Isn't it amazing how far so many people get in elite sport knowing so little?

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

We know from the Salt Lake City games that the IOC would never test positive anyone that could possibly damage the IOC brand.

Some are asking how Rogge could award extra gold medals in the skating before an inquiry had been completed but allow three cross-country skiers who tested positive for drugs to keep their medals because they had passed tests earlier in the games.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/feb/26/olympicgames.winterolympics2002

Maybe Rogge knew nothing, like Coe?

Not much to do with the subject, but your link-based information on the three XC-skiers (Mühlegg, Danilova, Lazutina) is inaccurate. All three gave a positive doping sample in 2002, but they were at first allowed to keep their medals that they got from earlier events where they didn't test positive (no positive test nor even retrospective ban). Apparently even these medals were taken away later and their names removed from the official results.

well said wrote:

118 118 wrote:

No shit Sherlock!

That must mean he was one of the 9 out of the thousands of possible candidates.

Seems obvious that the Anericans would purposely cover up for a Brit, doesn't it?

More likely those positives that mysteriously disappeared in US laboratories were those from US athletes.

much more likely to have been Said Aouita than Seb Coe

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1226890&page=1

Aouita ran in the 5000m only at the Los Angeles Olympics.

Steve Scott wrote quite candidly in his biography "The Miler" about being offered PEDs by a medical doctor he visited. According to Scott, the doctor assured him that many of his competitors were using PEDs.