Lifting... is it worth it?

i'm not sure it's worth it if you're only doing it twice a week :)

seriously. strength is speed. strength is health. strength is stamina. it makes you a better runner. period.

I am a former coach and writer on distance running. I also directed summer strength programs for all athletes.

How strong do you have to be to run the 5K? Is it necessary to bench 315 to run sub 17 minutes? I think leg and core exercises of the body weight type could be important, especially for older runners. But you can still get into trouble if you bulk up easily. Look at the Africans. Most are 5'4" 120'. They are not Arnold Schwarzeneggar!

No book is complete, neither is my 50 words on this subject. Injury prevention and rehabilitation change my answer. It's the running that matters most.

Jed Clampett wrote:

I am a former coach and writer on distance running. I also directed summer strength programs for all athletes.

How strong do you have to be to run the 5K? Is it necessary to bench 315 to run sub 17 minutes? I think leg and core exercises of the body weight type could be important, especially for older runners. But you can still get into trouble if you bulk up easily. Look at the Africans. Most are 5'4" 120'. They are not Arnold Schwarzeneggar!

No book is complete, neither is my 50 words on this subject. Injury prevention and rehabilitation change my answer. It's the running that matters most.

Mass does not equal strength and strength does not equal mass.

You can get stronger without gaining an ounce of weight.

No one is saying to bench.

Lifting will help prevent injury.

Lifting will improve running economy which might make you faster.

A little goes a long way.

Alan

Allan, I have a question. Maybe i am too lazy to dig hard but here it is. I am confused when people say lift heavy and less reps. Isnt heavy weights going to make you gain muscle meaning a little extra weight? And whenever i lifted heavy a couple of times the next day i gelt heavy and bulky. I had a hard time when I ran the next day. Or is that how you feel just the first two weeks? I grew up watching and told that you want to do a weight that you could at least do 12 reps and 3 sets as a distance runner. I always thought if you want to get bigger lift heavy and if you just want to get stronger lift light but more reps. Stronger that is not power am talking about. So what is the science behind lifting heavy? The ethiopians and kenyans dont lift heavy. Example if i decide to do bench press, wouldnt i benefit more from 3 sets of 20 reps by burning my chest and arm instead of 3 sets of 4-5 reps? Sorry for the messy writing Allan but using my phone and in a hurry. Thanks for your help.

If we were to weigh you after 12 weeks of lifting heavy weight vs 12 weeks of moderate weight assuming you are still running like most normal competitive runners and assuming you are not in a caloric surplus YOU WILL NOT gain weight either way.

Go watch Olympic Powerlifting in the lower weight classes. These guys are not huge. Not a great example as they are still bigger than runners...but they are lifting hundreds of pounds weighing very little.

The heavy bulky feeling is simple inflammation. When you lift you probably did the typical runners circuit....let see how fast I can do this and do as much volume as I can. That is why you were sore.

Lifting heavy with low volume should not leave you sore. Soreness is not a sign of progression or a sign of a successful workout. It happens for various other reasons.

A runner's lifting should focus on injury prevention and increasing strength and power by increasing neural efficiency. The theory is that this can improve running economy. If you want look up the research yourself. There have also been examples of elite runners doing plyos and lifting heavy. Again, do the research yourself.

Take a month or so and focus on form and technique using sub maximal weight. 2-3 sets of 10 with a lot left in the tank. Twice a week. Barbell squat. RDL (deadlift variation). Push press or Dips. Pull-ups.

Then start ramping to a max set of 3-5. Example for Barbell Squat: 45lb bar X 5, 95x5, 135x5, 185x3. You reached technical failure at 3. Next workout maybe you make 4, then 5, at that point add 10lbs and continue the process. For RDL use an alternating grip and focus on the hamstrings. Upper body lifts are supplementary. Do weighted pull-ups and either weighted dips or a push press. Same ramping protocol. After 2-3 months incorporate box jumps or split box jumps.

Alan

I reached the equivalent of Alan's advice independently and has worked for me for years now.

The only thing I will add is when you get to box jumps, your form has to be very, very good. Thinking through the exercise to have good form while moving quickly, isn't easy.

A more general observation is you can "cheat" the exercises and not get much improvement. Gotta watch that form.

You give good advice Alan, but there is no such thing as Olympic Powerlifting. There is Olympic lifting - snatch and clean & jerk - and Powerlifting - squat, bench, deadlift.

Typos are becoming more common as I age. Meant Olympic Lifting as in Clean & Jerk and Snatch. The same also goes for Powerlifting. The point was just because you lift heavy doesn't mean you're going to gain mass.

Alan

So I have read many people say to lift on workout days. Does anyone lift on long run days? So then you lifted Tuesday Friday Sunday? Or something like that...

I read some of your posts and they made sense to me. I bought the book starting strength as you recommended and I started doing deadlifts. After 2 weeks I can do 5 lifts with 100kg (220p). I feel my whole body stronger. Next week I will start with the squat. What you write is what Steve Magness writes in his book the science of running. A question. Should I continue increasing the weight as far as I can? Usually I run 5 and 10k. Thanks.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Runners already expend a lot of energy just in running. So, lifting should be minimal and performance oriented.

Focus on the squat and deadlift. Alternate workout to workout. 1-2 lifting days a week is fine. Lift preferably later in the day on your hardest run days.

Alan

I tend to agree with this. Adding in a lot of lifting while already at high mileage can do more harm than good, so it should be minimal.

With that said, this past year I cut down significantly on my running and upped my lifting significantly. I ended up almost PRing in the half marathon, and felt like a much stronger runner overall. We're all different, and for me it seems that I found a nice balance that works.

Alex... wrote:

I read some of your posts and they made sense to me. I bought the book starting strength as you recommended and I started doing deadlifts. After 2 weeks I can do 5 lifts with 100kg (220p). I feel my whole body stronger. Next week I will start with the squat. What you write is what Steve Magness writes in his book the science of running. A question. Should I continue increasing the weight as far as I can? Usually I run 5 and 10k. Thanks.

Would you stop running workouts faster?

I would alternate the squat and deadlift workout to workout. Increase slow and steady. You're going to reach a natural plateau. At this point adding 5lbs may prove difficult.

Just don't get so caught up in it that you lose sight of what's important...your running. You shouldn't be lifting hardcore during peak racing. What this means is that during key race weeks you should stick to just lifting for maintenance. Don't lift to failure, drop the weight but still lift same reps.

So, most of your strength gains should come during the offseason, and the frequency and intensity tapers off toward peak season.

Alan

Lifting increases bone density. This prevents fractures & osteoporosis.

Thanks.

Allan thanks so much. It makes sense now. So I was probably just sored and inflamed the next day. I felt like crap my chest arm. So I benched pressed 95lbs that is 25 s on each side and I was able to do 2 sets of 8 reps. Is that too many reps? By the sixth one I was struggling i will be honost. Ok so you listed squats, rdls, dips, pull ups and i normally do some planks and back ups as well. Whats a good starting point or combination of these exercises if lets say I have 30 min in the gym? With the squats should I just go all the way down or do a variation like El G use to do? I never did RDLs so Dont know how you feel afterwards. But is a little soreness expected in your lower back? How many minutes should I be resting in between sets of squats or RDLS and what about when you go from one exercise to the other? I am able to go to gym 2-3 days a week. Should I separate the squats and RDLS on different days or just do them together both days? I am 5'7 145lbs. Allan thanks so much and sorry for all the questions.

Oh one more thing Allan. I will youtube box jumps but is that the same as jumping on the stools in the gym? I do that once in a while and do step ups on it as well. The jumps tire the hell out of you and i get sored in my upper back. I feel like i am growing wings out probably because of the arm swing and force forward. How many jumps? Thanks again. Am going to start doing this tomorrow.

I mean, if you're skinny and have weak arms then yeah you should definitely WORKOUT. It's quite embarrassing being a fast runner and having weak arms. If you're a true DISTANCE runner than you may want to lift a little and take it slow at first then slowly building up . If you're a MIDDLE DISTANCE runner then idk why you're not lifting. It's extremely important and keeps you injury free. Do it in the off-season consistently and take down a notch during season. It'll improve your form drastically and improve your kick tbh.

I'll let Allan answer when he gets the chance, but no when doing RDLS you should feel your hamstrings working. They should feel sore not your lower back. Learn how to hinge at the hips. A broomstick drill you can find on YouTube might help.

STOP signing your name to your posts, TROLL!