Was Hicham El Guerrouj Protected?

Renato said EPO doesn't work on Africans, so even if he was on EPO, it didn't benefit him at all.

bernie madoff wrote:

Renato said EPO doesn't work on Africans,

He never said anything along those lines. Please stop repeating this in every damn thread.

The only big name elite runner who didn't get full protection during the last three decades was Ben Johnson.

Adding to the convo wrote:

bernie madoff wrote:

Renato said EPO doesn't work on Africans,

He never said anything along those lines.

Yes he did.

Adding to the convo wrote:

Please stop repeating this in every damn thread.

What other threads did I write this in?

renato said top africans born, living and training at altitude dont benefit from epo

or words to that effect

that must be east africans only then and not north africans because we know EPO works for north africans

athletics is a joke wrote:

The only big name elite runner who didn't get full protection during the last three decades was Ben Johnson.

Hi

impetus wrote:..

We now also know in hindsight that Hicham's Era(1995-2005) was the most doped in history and EPO was undetectable at the time his records were set and its use was prevalent

...

Not that I disagree, but how exactly do we "know" that the era 1995-2005 is the most doped? Is it strictly because of the widespread availability of EPO followed by certain tests?

Seems to me the 80s could have been as bad, or worse.

oh please wrote:

impetus wrote:..

We now also know in hindsight that Hicham's Era(1995-2005) was the most doped in history and EPO was undetectable at the time his records were set and its use was prevalent

...

Not that I disagree, but how exactly do we "know" that the era 1995-2005 is the most doped? Is it strictly because of the widespread availability of EPO followed by certain tests?

Seems to me the 80s could have been as bad, or worse.

i was referring to mid/distance where EPO is more effective than steroid

i should have made that clear

Marion Jones the real one 1 wrote:

athletics is a joke wrote:

The only big name elite runner who didn't get full protection during the last three decades was Ben Johnson.

Hi

Marion, you gotta tell the whole story. Admitting to doping was part of a plea deal.

Before that, USATF and the IAAF forgave all. The woman was using so much epo so frequently she failed a urine test. That's A LOT of EPO.

bernie madoff wrote:

Adding to the convo wrote:

He never said anything along those lines.

Yes he did.

Please provide a link to a source then.

bernie madoff wrote:

Adding to the convo wrote:

Please stop repeating this in every damn thread.

What other threads did I write this in?

Either you or other people repeat this all the time.

impetus wrote:

oh please wrote:

Not that I disagree, but how exactly do we "know" that the era 1995-2005 is the most doped? Is it strictly because of the widespread availability of EPO followed by certain tests?

Seems to me the 80s could have been as bad, or worse.

i was referring to mid/distance where EPO is more effective than steroid

i should have made that clear

Not more effective than amphetamines, by a long shot. Speed-popping superheroes were legal through the 60's. Mile WR drops 10 seconds in about 10 years...

We also know that Diack became president only in 1999, after El Guerrouj set his 1500 and mile records.

Why would he need protection if EPO was undetectable?

Why would they protect Arab middle distance runners but not American sprinters? I can understand the "political correctness" argument when it comes to poor East African runners, but not North Africans. Also, it was not difficult to find them for testing. El G was training at the same place for 11 months/year.

You would think certain groups of athletes might be offered protection.

1. Athletes that are wildly popular and draw a lot of revenue to the governing bodies.

2. Athletes from nations are are willing to pay bribes to the right folk.

In Hicham's case, it would be a case of bribing.. How rich is Morocco really? Corrupt, for sure. The world records were good for the sport, but if you assume he was allowed to dope freely, was he that special of a runner? Maybe so..

I do not understand the "political correctness theory" of east africa. I doubt these nations can really provide the €€€ to bribe, especially cause there are so many athletes from ethiopia & kenya. They are not really helping the IAAF make revenue. They basically marginalized a huge audience of "western" middle distance/distance fans and athletes, too. I think they are simply better, combined with other cultural & economic motivational factors. And it must be a task to set up drug testing in these corrupt and technologically poor nations.

impetus wrote:

Given what we now know about the Iaaf and Lamine Diack and others,and the level of corruption that existed within the organization

We now also know in hindsight that Hicham's Era(1995-2005) was the most doped in history and EPO was undetectable at the time his records were set and its use was prevalent?

Why would he need protecting if EPO was undetectable during that time (it was detectable in the last few years BTW)

El G never ran a bad race in his entire career....not one.

Well., wrote:

Why would they protect Arab middle distance runners but not American sprinters? I can understand the "political correctness" argument when it comes to poor East African runners, but not North Africans. Also, it was not difficult to find them for testing. El G was training at the same place for 11 months/year.

Did Morrocco carry out of season and out of competition testing on their athletes during El G's era? Or was he just tested by the IAAF?

And if the Moroccan athletics body were testing their athletes, can we trust them to be as rigorous and as honest as most other national federation testing?

Didn't El G train in remote areas of the Atlas Mountains? How easy and often did testers find and carry out unsuspected testing?

The way his career panned out, to me suggests he was doping.

The way he ran races, the relentlessness of fast times week in week out, his almost total lack of illness or injury throughout his career, the braces, the lack of 800m races, the incredulous stories of training runs, the fact most of his training partners and fellow Moroccan athletes were busted, and the sheer bad record of Morocco in terms of athletes using peds, all contribute to overwhelming evidence that he took EPO.

the dental issues prior to sydney seem likely due to growth hormone abuse

He got 8th in a race in 2004.