Want to know what Haile G's favorite moment of his career was? He says it was this 1995 race (video)

The European agents and doctors gave the EPO to the top Africans during the 90s

That got the most bang for the EPO buck

The spanish italians Moroccans and others were on it too

Jorge Bush wrote:

The European agents and doctors gave the EPO to the top Africans during the 90s

That got the most bang for the EPO buck

The spanish italians Moroccans and others were on it too

Three lines that killed the day for wellnow and other science deniers.

You aren't interested in science.

And the rest of the track world watched passively for more than a decade?Only European agents and doctors had this magic elixir EPO?Why didn't American, Australian, or non-Spanish,Italian European agents and doctors help their own? Did they use all of their EPO stocks for cycling? Bigger bang for buck?

Jorge Bush wrote:

The European agents and doctors gave the EPO to the top Africans during the 90s

That got the most bang for the EPO buck

The spanish italians Moroccans and others were on it too

Jorge Bush wrote:

The European agents and doctors gave the EPO to the top Africans during the 90s

That got the most bang for the EPO buck

The spanish italians Moroccans and others were on it too

But Americans were too pious to touch the stuff? I can tell you in no uncertain terms that Europeans and North Africans got a lot more out of EPO than East Africans did.

Jeff, the only people who benefitted from EPO were the people selling it.

The best athletes will be the best with or without drugs. To believe otherwise is just nonsense.

The problem you have Jeff and others is that you still believe in the PED concept. So your morality is phoney. In the same circumstances as the dopers, you would have doped too. And the same goes for others. Until you get your own minds around this, you are part of the doping problem, but you are too self righteous to see it.

My position on EPO not helping elite distance running is not new.It doesn't survive any robust statistical analysis. How can an undetectable globally available drug produce such selective regional, or individual results, at a time when cycling was benefiting globally?

doping expert wrote:

No EPO test for 7 years during this period of track world record breaking

What are the odds that Haile didn't touch the stuf?

Very slim indeed considering his agent is jos hermens

He is the man who was caught sending athletes to Spanish doping doctors and then claimed they were having homeopathy treatment

Do you think that Meb was dirty when he won his Olympic medal under Jos' management? Or SFH, since she was also managed by him? Do you think that Amy Mortimer and Nick Symmonds were dirty since Mark Block was their manager? It can be easy to paint guilt by association with a broad brush.

Jeff FFsSake. This 'dirty, clean' hyperbole just feeds into the drug hype. You are suposed to be a man of intelligence. Cut the hyperbole and try to look more objectively and less subjectively at the issue. The human body has enough chemicals floating around to boost anyone's performance by the suposed 6 or 7% or whatever (insert imaginary statistic).

Do something really beneficial for the sport and educate yourself.

rekrunner wrote:

My position on EPO not helping elite distance running is not new.

It doesn't survive any robust statistical analysis. How can an undetectable globally available drug produce such selective regional, or individual results, at a time when cycling was benefiting globally?

And how can such poor people have afforded the stuff anyway when it was so expensive in the 90s? According to the letsrun doping experts, they only got good, when the European agents started handing out EPO like candy?

I'm pretty sure that Haile was very very good before he signed any contracts with Jos Hermens?

Egad Sir wrote:

Jeff, the only people who benefitted from EPO were the people selling it.

The best athletes will be the best with or without drugs. To believe otherwise is just nonsense.

The problem you have Jeff and others is that you still believe in the PED concept. So your morality is phoney. In the same circumstances as the dopers, you would have doped too. And the same goes for others. Until you get your own minds around this, you are part of the doping problem, but you are too self righteous to see it.

I know what I'm talking about and you don't.

I'm a big Haile fan, but the logic that damned Armstrong dooms Haile as well. In an era where everyone is using, records are broken left and right and many of those athletes test positive, you just cannot be the most dominant guy in the field and be clean. There are no natural anomalies or genetic dispositions powerful enough to allow one to destroy field after field of Golden League runners aided with something as effective as EPO, unless you yourself are also aided. Haile's dominance stretched for years under these conditions.

Now, was Haile a goon like Lance? A completely destructive sociopath? Doesn't appear to be the case.

No Jeff, you don't. All you are doing is repeating the same old hyperbole.

Egad Sir wrote:

No Jeff, you don't. All you are doing is repeating the same old hyperbole.

I didn't know J.R. had a brother.

hulksmash wrote:

I'm a big Haile fan, but the logic that damned Armstrong dooms Haile as well. In an era where everyone is using, records are broken left and right and many of those athletes test positive, you just cannot be the most dominant guy in the field and be clean. There are no natural anomalies or genetic dispositions powerful enough to allow one to destroy field after field of Golden League runners aided with something as effective as EPO, unless you yourself are also aided. Haile's dominance stretched for years under these conditions.

Now, was Haile a goon like Lance? A completely destructive sociopath? Doesn't appear to be the case.

Cycling isn't track. Based upon what Haile's said on the subject, he's either clean or a sociopathic liar. My experience and my gut tells me the former. Not that I haven't been wrong before.

Egad Sir wrote:

No Jeff, you don't. All you are doing is repeating the same old hyperbole.

Ok.

Egad Sir

Skillz

dopers united wrote:

"I don't know where it came from. I got that extra boost, and I finished unbelievably fast. How can you possibly kick that fast at the end of a marathon? I say, You know what? That's the first time I was believing in EPO. It was not natural. I mean seriously, the way I kicked down that last 400 yards and ran [to 2:19:59] was just unnatural."

- Ed Hellebuyck

I've had amazing 400-2000m kicks at the ends of marathons, and no EPO nor any other supposedly PEDs ever.

Drugs or not, none of the runners today take any chances at all in races to even go after their own PRs (except Kiprop).

The 10,000 is dead and 5000m races on the circuit in every race are runners mostly looking around at each throughout the race with no one trying to push their body to see what they can do.

Farah's 5 and 10 PRs are from 2011 and he hasn't even run sub 13 the last three years, even though he obviously seems fitter now given his 1500m time and half marathon time the past year.

It's not just Farah, though.

No one is chasing the clock.

It doesn't have to be a WR attempt. Just try to run as fast as you can. Isn't that part of the deal when you train to be good at running?