Junior Kenyan 800m runners

ironside wrote:

Ventolin^3: my statements regarding 400 & 1500 metres success of sub-1:44 800 men was not theory. It may take some work, but you can look up the results. There are 124 sub-1:44 outdoor 800 metres men as of 12/21/15.

There's your problem. Ventolin prefers theories. facts just get in the way.

This thread, as I stated a couple of days ago was initiated as an east African and US comparison in junior 800 metres. Ventolin^3 keeps trying to bend the facts to fit his theory that a 30-something 47.5 400m & 3:36 1500m man can win in 2016. Back to junior issue: US high school & college coaches, I believe I can train EVERY legit outdoor sub-47 400 metre (no relay split) boy or man into a sub-1:50 800 metres man in ten weeks if said person races sub-47 recently. Some of those sub-47 boys or men could break 1:42

ironside wrote:US 800 metres Olympic gold can occur but will only come from a 400/800 sub-47 400 metres man not from a 800/1500 man

yes

because when Rudy retires or sadly for him doesn't get back to '12 shape for rio, no one in there right mind will try to gun-it from pistol apart from possibly souleiman if he wants better chance of gold than at 1500

it will come down to who has biggest kick in a crawl to 600 & in that case it will likely go to guy with best 200/400 speed with some quality 800 pedigree

ironside wrote:Ventolin^3 keeps trying to bend the facts to fit his theory that a 30-something 47.5 400m & 3:36 1500m man can win in 2016

who ???

what 30y ole are you saying coud win gold over 800 or 1500 ???

Back to junior issue: US high school & college coaches, I believe I can train EVERY legit outdoor sub-47 400 metre (no relay split) boy or man into a sub-1:50 800 metres man in ten weeks if said person races sub-47 recently

possible

but they are going to have to be willing to put in the hard work

it may not be that hard

i have read that caballo broke the 800wr in winning gold in '76 in 1'43.50 off 15 mpw !!! for only that previous winter !!!

Some of those sub-47 boys or men could break 1:42

maybe 1 or 2% if they have 46+ speed & willing to put in helluva lot of mileage, likely ~ 50mpw ( but i am no coach ) & off course, the main barrier to this being removed : not being run into ground doubling & even tripling on days for many, many college meets

imo, if not for this absurd "grinding into the dust" of college boys, the american records since '70 with "fresh" grads -> full pro careers : shoud be

~ 1'40-mid/high

~ 3'25+

~ 7'18+

~ 12'35+

~ 26'10+

i reckon there has been a huge wastage of talent thru drop-outs thru disillusionment of incredible hammering of will by college meets

yes, even with track being minority sport, the talent pool initially attracted to it before being hammered out by college abuse, if fully nutured/guided is good enough to have pretty much broken all the track wrs & by a long way

Funny that when I use MY formula for Nick (47.45/3:34.55) I get 1:42.82!

Looks like mine is a lot more closer to reality than the waffle you come up with.

He used a standing start, so I would hazard to say that if he has ideal cons and actually came out of blocks, the results would be very much the same - no sub 47

i'm not sure if someone has hi-jacked your handle, but you ain't posting sense

47.45 / 3'34.55 ->1'45.14

the below subscription calculator is not wrong if you put in as accurate 400/800 or 400/1500 or 5k/10k., etc.., best estimate times if possible for current shape & "modify" some shapes as Rudy theoretical 3'26 if he "lasted perfectly" to 1500 off 800 training, instead of actual likely 3'33 with maybe 44-mid/high for '12 :

( it predicted mo coud go 3'28+ in '13 which shocked even me trying it out !!! )

i'm pretty good at this kinda thing using above for many years as i'm sure you are at your "coaching"

let's leave it be, apart from, if you are posting, where on earth are you getting that formula ???

no

it isn't

i'm talking as a "friend"

you are joking

non-sequitur again

he ran 47.45 off standing start in windy dublin a while before games

he reckoned he wouda been "faster" -> likely certainly into 46's at peak for games in warmer, still conditions in that enclosed stadium

what is your problem with his tweet-assertion ?

( can you kindly post better

this from a "friend" who does like/respect you )

( & you can kindly post that Earl Jones workout ! )

Today, I agree with much said by ventolin^3 regarding US 800 runners. A huge psychological challenge regarding training US sub-47 400m boys or men on a quest for sub-1:42: many are comfortable being 200/400 boys or men. All NCAA track coaches love having 21.75/46.25 guys. They can race many relays. How many track coaches are willing to ask a kid with said speed to become a 400/800 boy or man if said boy or man has a football or soccer background and said boy or man may be disinclined to running XC?

To be a world class 800m runner you need to be able to run 46s off 800m training. It is not good enough to simply be fast. You need to be fast and able to hold your speed.

Metric Miler wrote:

To be a world class 800m runner you need to be able to run 46s off 800m training. It is not good enough to simply be fast. You need to be fast and able to hold your speed.

Nick Symmonds can't run 46 off any training. Yet he's managed to be a world-class 800m runner. This is because he is able to run world-class 800m times.

While the U.S. running geek scene is collectively butthurt by fast junior times by Africans, Africans are also sweeping medals in Olympic 800s.

Everyone has to race the best eventually. "Junior" is a Euro invention, anyway. In Kenya you chase the men until you are running with the men, or GTFO.

That just isn't true. The Africans love the world juniors etc. You can guarantee that Kenya and Ethiopia will have a team at every Junior chamos they can enter.

Anecdotal evidence: how many of you understand statistics. Thread began as east African versus US junior 800 metres runners. So many of you bring up Nick Symmonds. We, in US have so many sub-47 400 metres men, we should produce 5 new sub-1:42 800 metres boys or men a year. Nick has not broken 1:42 and will not at or near age 31 break 1:42. If one is not in sub-1:42 condition, one cannot compete for Olympic 800 metres gold, 2016

ironside wrote:

Anecdotal evidence: how many of you understand statistics. Thread began as east African versus US junior 800 metres runners. So many of you bring up Nick Symmonds. We, in US have so many sub-47 400 metres men, we should produce 5 new sub-1:42 800 metres boys or men a year. Nick has not broken 1:42 and will not at or near age 31 break 1:42. If one is not in sub-1:42 condition, one cannot compete for Olympic 800 metres gold, 2016

Not anecdotal evidence; rather, a counterexample to a badly-quantified assertion.

metric wrench wrote:Nick Symmonds can't run 46 off any training

eh ?

he has a twitter account

go ask him what 400 shape he thought he was in for games

Why have you hijacked my thread? Talk about the topic.

ma'am

no

i did

Metric Miler wrote:

To be a world class 800m runner you need to be able to run 46s off 800m training. It is not good enough to simply be fast. You need to be fast and able to hold your speed.

You are absolutely right!

Most NCAA 47x types can eventually get down 46 off of 200/400 training, but world class 800m runners run 46x off of 800m training or at least 400/800 training. Obviously there are outliers, if you are a sub-4 miler, then perhaps 47x can get you to world class, but I still think the global championship medalists 9 times out of 10 are 46x types.

Btw, nearly all of the African 800 meter runners started out as sprinters.

Ironside:

•RE: Junior Kenyan 800m runners 12/16/2015 1:28AM - in reply to 22-27

• Jed Clampett

"Actually it's true.

In Kenya some of the students run to and from school. Then if they want to go see a friend, they run there. Then they run home from there.

None of that is interval training.

But Americans want to believe that all their interval track running gets it done. Arthur Lydiard knew this was wrong in the 1960s but people still refuse to listen."

The above is a direct quote from my post on this thread. When did I say that Kenyans do not run intervals? Lydiard trained runners do lots of intervals!

Actually it's true.

In Kenya some of the students run to and from school. Then if they want to go see a friend, they run there. Then they run home from there.

None of that is interval training.

But Americans want to believe that all their interval track running gets it done. Arthur Lydiard knew this was wrong in the 1960s but people still refuse to listen.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6910104#ixzz494O2TD6V