how often does a 30 year old athletic dude get LOW T???

Apparently, you never discovered they dope horses.

Testosterone falls about 1% each year after the age of 30. Not enough to account for low T at the levels Ryan Hall measured 200ng/dl. Most labs range from 348ng/dl to 1192ng/dl. That is the range for all men regardless of health condition. So someone who would fit the bill for the higher end of the spectrum would be your 19 year old weightlifter who eats whole foods, sleeps extremely well, doesn't avoid fat or cholesterol, and doesn't drink or do any drugs. The low end of the spectrum is your 80 year old obese diabetes patient. That should paint the picture of how low Ryan halls numbers are/were. Anyone who runs over 40 miles a week will have significantly decreased testosterone levels.

Pop_pop!_v2.1.1 wrote:

Apparently, you never discovered they dope horses.

You ever see those two? No anabolics there. Too early for Kelso in any case.

rojo wrote:

YOu need high T to be a badass warrior. Most guys back throughout history likely didn't make it past 30. You died in battle or something. Then if you do make it, your T plummets so you can survive. As an old man of 45, you don't want the young 25 year studs thinking you might challenge them in battle.

Barbarians need high T to maintain a lifestyle of hard manual labor and nomadic wandering. And those levels must always remain high because there is nowhere to settle down and be an old person. You either stay active or die.

It is in the civilized places that testosterone drops. Men who sit around and get fat and do nothing and live in luxury for hundreds of generations will not evolve genes that produce high T, but genes to make them docile and hippie-like.

Barbarians also eat lots of meat, whereas civilized people eat grass.

runn wrote:

This is a good conversation. I'm 56 and wonder about this- do I have low T?

Can I fix it without drugs? ie- type of training, food?

I like some of the well thought out responses.

MY COMMENTS ONLY APPLY TO READERS OVER THE AGE OF 50

See your doctor and ask for a low T blood test. (Just tell him you have some of the symptoms of low T.) Everyone over 50 should do this so you have a baseline for future testing.

About 12 years ago at age 50-ish, I saw my doc with all the signs of low T. (This was way before the low T commercials.) He tested T levels and said I was normal. I said I knew what normal was... and this wasn't it! I asked to see the actual results. I was 235, normal, but the range for normal at my age was 190-750. I was way below the midpoint for normal.

I resolved to boost my T levels because libido, energy, and attitude had all declined. I was able to boost T to 450 after a few months and now have a T level of 360 in my 60s. Here is what I tried and learned.

AndroGel: It works, but the side effects were manboobs and shrunken testicles. It works by replacing testosterone, but that tricks the body into thinking you are producing enough T so the testicles start shutting down. There is also an increased risk of prostate cancer. AndroGel is also a banned substance. I tried it for about 4 months and then stopped. I would not recommend AndroGel except for geezers in the mid-70s and 80s. I believe that long term use will lead to prostate cancer, but since half of men over 85 have prostate cancer, that's not much more risk.

DHEA: It works, but by a different pathway than AndroGel. DHEA provides the body with more raw materials to create T. If you take too much, the side effects are the same as AndroGel, plus "Roid Rage." Still, DHEA, in the right dosage, is a miracle substance. I know several 50+ women who swear by it. It is also a banned substance. If you are willing to ignore that and willing to learn how to titrate the dosage, DHEA is great stuff. It's available without a prescription, but I would recommend only from a well-respected brand. I have noticed a difference in drug store brands.

Various other OTC substances: Tribulus terristris, horny goat weed, homeopathics, etc. None of them worked.

Amino Acids (whey protein): It provides a minor benefit by providing the raw materials to create T. Still, every little bit counts.

HIIT: High intensity short duration exercise significantly boosts T levels and HGH levels in older adults. HIIT is like a miracle drug. The only downside is injury and heart attack. :) If you are over 50 and not including this in your routine, you need to start.

my experience, I'm curious. What did you find was the "right" dosage of DHEA and when did you take it, morning, mid-day, evening, etc. or in multiple doses throughout the day. And, yes, I realize it's banned but I don't compete any more.

my experience- thanks for the information. Could you suggest a program or give a link? I'm researching and there's a ton of info.

Getting married. End of sex life. T declines accordingly.

runfastrunfar wrote:

There are multiple ways for a man in his 30s to have low testosterone.

All men in the West are experiencing plummeting testosterone levels due to:

(14 reasons)

I could go on but those are just a few.

rojo wrote:

It seems like virtually every other ad is advertising for low T....

Then I saw the (above) post which was fantastic. Great post. I didn't know why there were so many ads but he helped explain it.

1) how was that post "fantastic" ? Because he wrote 1-14 ? Several (most?) of the points he wrote are questionable/untested (mostly it's because men are just fatter than they were, and more sedentary). For example: most studies have not shown reduced T due to soy consumption, and people "in the west" don't eat much soy anyway. Also, his overall premise that "All men in the West are experiencing plummeting testosterone levels " is certainly not backed by evidence. ALL men?? He can't even prove that overall there has been a huge reduction in T levels in "today's western men" compared to the past (there has been a small drop, due to obesity, but not a "plummeting" one), or compared to other regions of the globe now.

2) You say "I didn't know why there were so many ads but he helped explain it"....? Did you mean that

a) he explained why there is such a real NEED for T replacement due to that fact that he explained why "All men in the West are experiencing plummeting testosterone levels" ? (i.e., you believe his premise and his "evidence"), or....

b) he demonstrated why so many people THINK they need T replacement ?

I think you meant the former, not the latter, but the latter is the case. He could be writing the ads FOR the "low T" ad people!

There is an abundance of "low T" ads *NOT* because of any epidemic of low T. There is abundance of those ads because: everyone wants a fountain of youth.......doctors want more regular patients (so give the patient what he wants or he will go elsewhere)....AND Big Pharma wants to, and knows how to, make billions of $'s off the american people

Yes, when you age, your T goes down. It's normal, it's fine, and if you push weights and eat lots of protein, you won't lose that much muscle, and can even gain it. But everyone wants an "edge".....or .....Everyone wants to convince themselves that their shortcomings are due to some "medical condition", and that if they just get to "normal", they will be the awesome stud they always were, or always should have been. And most doctors don't even do a blood test for "low T", they just hear some "symptoms", and give a prescription. It's a joke, and they are playing with fire, because long term use is likely to cause some health problems, and it is definitely unknown to what extent.

People want better living through drugs/chemistry. They do it with ADHD/"study" drugs, they do it with pain meds, they do it with anti-depressants, they do it with ED drugs, and they do with hormones. Some people have a real Low T medical condition, but those are few and far between. The ads are praying on the insecurities, and/or macho ignorance of the masses of men.

It was all those ball busting workouts

+10 Rex

I was not asking for it, just about it at my last physical 51yrs, mentioned to doc about no longer waking up with "it" . He told me don't run so much.

How to geldings and eunuchs function then? They have no T. Is it actually that much of a factor in energy and recovery?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

adrenals produce up to 5 % of your testosterone ,

so never running on zero amount .

similarly for geldings still have adrenals ,

and for gelding depends at what age castrated

if younger less muscle ,taller horse

and if few years old will have the size and muscle

go point format also, talking natural foods not supplements

1.

sugar leads to decrease in testosterone levels for many hours after

meal

2.

soy not near as bad if fermented like chinese used to do .#

but then have to look at generations of chinese to see that

high soy consumption is estrogentic regardless.

3.

agree totally avoid tea tree like the plague

regardless if anticeptic qualities etc use other things.

avoid most sun creams , totally laced in xenoextrogenic compounds

maybe niece in market for male sun cream

4.

just various chemicals can cause various interactions in body like

article here thought was joke at first

"does the air you breath make you fat " bbc article

BBC - Future - The air that makes you fat

cant put up link . just search says smog casuses chronic inflammation etc

why galen needs that mask ....

4.

again just look at generations of populations around world to

see which foods staples to avoid .

like india and there spices .

avoid tumeric , curcumin not other spice cumin

in everything and alot ,good for inflamation and many things

but not great for the androgen receptor ,

downgrades it and would become normative over many generations

in indian males.

Curcumin Degrades Androgen Receptors - MPB Research

Effect of curcumin on the interaction between androgen ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

› NCBI › Literature › PubMed Central (PMC)

again cant get link

5.

stick to androgenic foods in moderation ,

wheat if can take , oats , etc ,especially buckwheat via russia

agian look at the pacific islanders when comes to food eat alot of

and coconut is very androgenic , water and fat .

it actually upgrades the androgen receptor ,etc.

coconut oil again good but even though so called good fat still fat

so dont eat to much ,

so we have a winner coconut oil .............

"View topic - Caprylic Acid in coconut fat and Androgens"

runn wrote:

This is a good conversation. I'm 56 and wonder about this- do I have low T?

Can I fix it without drugs? ie- type of training, food?

I like some of the well thought out responses.

The over 50 guy post is helpful, the biggest bang for buck for me was 3 things:

1 lots of sleep

2 eat many meals/snacks, with protein every time

3 you need low rep, high intensity strength training, google 5X5 stronglifts. High reps will kill your running, body builder reps (8-12 to failure) will kill your running workouts. Low reps will leave you fresh and not sore, but increase your strength and boost T/HGH.

The higher your max rep/strength, the fewer fibers you recruit at sub maximal efforts, therefore you burn less energy then before when your strength was less. My marathon time/recovery kept improving thru late 40s (nothing great, but sub 3 at least) with this approach.

Every other legal thing was mostly a waste of time/money. e.g. vitamins, Horny goat weed, Maca etc, they *may* boost your libido, but i was told this is *not* the same as boosting T.

Renaulto Casanova wrote:

Overtraining syndrome. Lots of ultra guys get it.

Its as simple as that, Hall needed maybe 6 months off, and scheduled short recurrent down time from that point on. A half decent coach would have spotted this problem and adjusted. Sorry, God does not qualify as a half decent coach.

i've been there, had to take off about 8 months with zero exercise, to recover from systemic burnout in early 40s (low T, anemia, ferritin near zero, TSH thru the roof), but came back to set marathon PBs in late 40s.

add vitamin d and sunny climate to list.

more than t levels, free t, estrogen,fat ,androgenreceptor. all from young age

Actually tested:

When overtrained, running 80-90mpw most at under 6min/mile, shitty diet, not great sleep, not taking care of recovery, no lifting, really stressed out....206 (also I weighed 68kg)

A few years later, running maybe 10mpw of sprints and intervals, lots of heavy compound weightlifting (dips, chins, squats, deadlifts, overhead press, bench press, rows), a higher fat diet, sleeping 9-10hrs a night, very little stress, diet of mostly meat and fish and vegetables....807 (and weigh 86kg, still have 6pack)

aduck2022 wrote:

add vitamin d and sunny climate to list.

more than t levels, free t, estrogen,fat ,androgenreceptor. all from young age

Good pt, vit D is a hormone. Runners in the deep south will make enough year round if they run outside, but northerners should supplement Nov-Mar for those living in NY or Boston.

just some datas wrote:

Actually tested:

When overtrained, running 80-90mpw most at under 6min/mile, shitty diet, not great sleep, not taking care of recovery, no lifting, really stressed out....206 (also I weighed 68kg)

A few years later, running maybe 10mpw of sprints and intervals, lots of heavy compound weightlifting (dips, chins, squats, deadlifts, overhead press, bench press, rows), a higher fat diet, sleeping 9-10hrs a night, very little stress, diet of mostly meat and fish and vegetables....807 (and weigh 86kg, still have 6pack)

Sounds reasonable. Maybe you don't care, but how did your 10k or marathon times compare before/after? After recovering, I went from 143 pounds up to 156 and dropped marathon time by 4 mins, Bench Press went up about 25 pounds for 3X8 reps.

just some datas wrote:

sleeping 9-10hrs a night, very little stress,....

10 hrs sleep a night and very little stress?? Lol. Do you have a job? A girlfriend or wife? kids?

Funny.

(and please, spare us the Paleo/Cross-fit commercial)