how often does a 30 year old athletic dude get LOW T???

Low testosterone can also happen from overtraining. The threshold for overtraining also of course varies.

My guess is that he over trained during his "coached by god" phase and his testosterone dropped. He probably had it measured then and found that it was low.

He probably has since recovered to normal levels, hasn't had it retested, and is just blaming any bad performances on that. I'd say (IMO) that scenario is more likely than him having naturally low testosterone at his age and also more likely than him abusing PEDs.

I feel kind of bad for him and kind of not. I think he could be a serious contender now if he would just pick a decent coach and stick with/listen to him/her. He jumps around too much, he's a bit flighty.

Def abused testosterone. Uses God references to cover up his sins.

Overtraining syndrome. Lots of ultra guys get it.

Renaulto Casanova wrote:

Overtraining syndrome. Lots of ultra guys get it.

Doesn't mean you can just dope up to "correct" a natural training limitation.

you are both jokes wrote:

Renaulto Casanova wrote:

Overtraining syndrome. Lots of ultra guys get it.

Doesn't mean you can just dope up to "correct" a natural training limitation.

Why not? The positive T:E ratio threshold is 4:1. If you do it responsibly, then, you are never ever, ever going to test positive around 1:1 with 99.99% of human males. Obviously, you can't live on the stuff.

If it's for reals with Hall, then getting a TUE is no problem. If low t was a real thing it would be lifelong.... And there's NO WAY he would have made international elite level with low T. No recovery. That's why he can't get a TUE. Maybe he can buy one from the IAAF?

Hall was overtraining when he ran his best, but the clock was ticking.

He brought it back w less and smarter work and more alterG to reduce breakdown, but even then the clock was ticking, as this issue is serious, he was just buying himself time. Straight from Selye.

The problem w the gray area here is some jackass coach can go looking for some jackass doctor and you get an instant excuse to cheat with testosterone

Low is what we say it is

Hall is to be commended. A think he can still get back.

dsrunner

whataretheodds wrote:

I was watching the ryan hall video and he blames his bad training on Low T. The only dude i know who is 30 that I KNOW is a dude who abused testosterone and permanently f'd himself up. Does anyone else think hall ruined his carreer by early experimentation with PEDS and how has a permanently F'd up T lvls?

1) None of us know for sure but I personally don't think he abused PEDs and now has permanently messed up testosterone levels solely because he could easily obtain a TUE at this point to raise them back up to normal levels and has chosen not to.

2) You may personally "KNOW" more dudes than just one but a lot of males A) don't get/need to get their testosterone checked and/or B) don't care to tell others they have low testosterone.

3) Overtraining with distance running can easily contribute to low testosterone and messed up thyroid levels. Hall didn't have a coach for many years, he trained himself. I don't think most people are surprised that he may have messed up his testosterone levels due to years of poor training choices. That, or, it could just be sh!tty genetics which is not highly unlikely.

He has stated that he does not want to pursue obtaining a TUE because it goes against his morals. It's both, in my opinion, commendable and unfortunate simply because he would only be correcting his body's malfunctioning testosterone levels, not unfairly enhancing them higher than his competitors.

How to geldings and eunuchs function then? They have no T. Is it actually that much of a factor in energy and recovery?

1. Ryan Hall is 33. Not 30.

2. Although Ryan's a marathoner, low T is not unheard of in relatively unathletic men in their 30's. There are probably a lot of guys walking around with low T but don't know it because they don't work out hard enough or often enough to see that they aren't responding positively, and haven't been through the trial and error process to determine what's causing it. This is probably why people think it's related only to overtraining and PED's. Some guys are just at the bottom of the bell curve.

This is a good conversation. I'm 56 and wonder about this- do I have low T?

Can I fix it without drugs? ie- type of training, food?

I like some of the well thought out responses.

There are multiple ways for a man in his 30s to have low testosterone.

All men in the West are experiencing plummeting testosterone levels due to:

1. Chronic stress levels - cortisol increases effecting test. production.

2. Diet - certain foods increase test. levels and many decrease test. levels. Examples of foods that decrease test. levels are foods that are sprayed heavily with pesticides; soy (this is a double whammy since they are heavily sprayed and contain xenoestrogen). Foods that increase test levels are cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower).

3. Plastic containers - again they contain xenoestrogen.

4. Lavender - reduces test. levels; found in just about every cologne/perfume out there.

5. Tea tree oil - reduces test. levels can cause gynecomastia in boys. Found in shampoos and shower gels.

6. Lack of sleep - reduces cortisol, increases growth hormone and test. levels.

7. Cancer - one of the early warning signs of testicular cancer is falling test. levels.

8. Depression - This will absolutely KILL test. levels.

9. Damage to the testes.

10. Lack of good fat - test. is made from cholesterol.

11. Cancer in general.

12. Too low calorie intake.

13. Too high calorie intake.

14. Traumatic brain injury.

I could go on but those are just a few.

runfastrunfar wrote:

All men in the West are experiencing plummeting testosterone levels due to:

6. Lack of sleep - reduces cortisol, increases growth hormone and test. levels.

I could go on but those are just a few.

Just correcting your typo on 6, should say "decreases growth hormone..."

But also, please read this thread, you seem confused about what is a "few":

Teebone - thanks for catching the typo. I did mean decrease.

I am not confuse with the word "few". I wanted to hit the "major" causes. If we start getting more specific it could go on and on. A mix of a "few" nutritional, physical, and chemical causes would satisfy most.

A baker's dozen is not exhaustive.

Terrence Mahon pushed Ryan pretty hard. I do not think that he gave him enough time to recover between training cycles. Hall ran a 2:06 in London in April and probably did not have sufficient recovery before getting ready for the Olympics in August. He was just too young and too new at the marathon to be pushed that hard at that point. I think that is what may have pushed him into the red zone as far as being at risk for low T.

hall is also vegan... that ruins athletes trying to actually run fast

I was going to ask the OP if he ever listens to the radio, particularly sports radio. It seems like virtually every other ad is advertising for low T. Given the amount of ads, I'd just assume you don't need to be Alberto Salazar to need a little androgel.Then I saw the following post which was fantastic.

Great post. I didn't know why there were so many ads but he helped explain it.

Couldn't some of it also just be evolutionary? YOu need high T to be a badass warrior. Most guys back throughout history likely didn't make it past 30. You died in battle or something. Then if you do make it, your T plummets so you can survive. As an old man of 45, you don't want the young 25 year studs thinking you might challenge them in battle.

tuff nut wrote:

hall is also vegan... that ruins athletes trying to actually run fast

No he isn't. Let's not spread misinformation please.

Just because you decided to park your 'nads at 40 does not mean that's how it's supposed to work.

Many of the famous warriors of the past did just fine at 45 and older.

I wonder how many guys with low T actually had an earlier test done when things were going well. What if Hall just has low T?

Ming Dynasty wrote:

How to geldings and eunuchs function then? They have no T. Is it actually that much of a factor in energy and recovery?

Function relative to others with similar systems? About the same.

The recovery boost from T and HGH is great. That's why anti-aging clinics are everywhere. It's a cumulative effect. The ioc knows this and permits it to deliver amaaaazing broadcast performances.