Documenting my comeback to competitive running. From 20 to 15 minutes in a 5k.

How is your training going this week? How frequently do you update your status (i.e. once a week)?

All is well. Thanks for asking!

I try to update twice a week, but I'll probably move to once a week fairly soon because of convenience and keeping LRC interest. I think the mid week updates have made it kind of hard to follow overall progress.

Weighed this morning and was 175.4. 160's is starting to look more reachable.

Monday I did 8x3 minutes on 1 minute standing recovery high density threshold work. I did a 2 mile warm up and a short .5 mile cool down. I started at 7:30 pace and worked down to 6:30 pace. I was planning on doing 10 so it was a moderate threshold workout.

Yesterday I did 4 easy and 4x150 with a minute break at 60 second 400 pace. Just a little touch up.

Today Hadd 2400 test to measure any change in the last 3 weeks.

Weekly Mileage Goal is 45 with 7-4-9-6-4-11-4 planned out. I can tell I'm getting close to needing a down week so I plan on getting 30ish next week and taking a day or two off.

Injury wise, I had my Achilles flare up last Saturday (I think from doing a long run on softer grass). It was really tight Sunday so I spent the next 3 days on flat pavement and a track and I can't feel it. I've been dealing with runners knee in my right knee but it's manageable. Lydiard always said that when increasing mileage that his beginner runners had to ice their knees.

Newly Improved wrote:

The purpose of the 200's is contradicting to what most people think I'm trying to accomplish.

Just saw this thread for the 1st time.

Re the 200s: given what you are using them for, they're too long. Do 50-100m or maybe 150m max. 200 is a bit long for early/off season speed development.

Sounds like it is moving right along, of course, those little nagging injuries always seem to crop up during a good block of training while improving. With a down week, you should hopefully be able to repair those!

I am attempting a similar comeback. Currently 31y/o, haven't run competitively up until this year since 2003. Gave up running before college due to multiple injuries. I peaked at 45mpw my senior (prior to track season) and still managed to get hurt! (HS PRs of :56 400m, 2:03 800m, 4:32 1600m, 9:53 3200m, 16:30 5k in cross country).

This past June I jumped into all-comers track meet. I had been doing 15-20mpw for about a 6 weeks (mixing in speedwork and some low mileage). I ran the mile (1609m) in 5:25, 200m in 28.1, 800m relay leg in 2:28, then limped in with 13:47 3200m (that hurt, wanted to drop out). I had about 5-6 min between races.

I felt pretty good about that meet and decided to train for a marathon, unfortunately I picked too ambitious of a program and came down with the dreaded tendonitis. The problem(s) I could pinpoint included weekly mileage increased too much too quickly, not sleeping enough, and running at a faster pace than I was capable. In fact, I started slowing down first due to overtraining before I became injured!

So I have been back to the drawing board the last 3 weeks. I am experimenting with HADD type training, as I need to try a a different way to get an aerobic stimulus without breaking down. I have been running for time and trying to keep my heart rate in the 130s-140s (max HR approx 195).

This week I have about 3 hours of running in (75 min sunday, 30min Tuesday, 65 minutes today) Avg pace has been 9:00-9:30 on each run, keeping the heart rate manageable. I also feel like I am recovering well on this schedule.

I have not done the test yet, but may do so in another 3 weeks. I may be between 20-25 miles this week!

crete wrote:

Newly Improved wrote:

The purpose of the 200's is contradicting to what most people think I'm trying to accomplish.

Just saw this thread for the 1st time.

Re the 200s: given what you are using them for, they're too long. Do 50-100m or maybe 150m max. 200 is a bit long for early/off season speed development.

Yeah I realized that. More than anything I'm not aerobically strong enough to make a few 90-95% 200's recoverable.

JR GOAT- Sounds like you're on the right path. I'm not too worried about nagging injuries. Most little things are manageable. You need to try the HADD Test. I don't necessarily believe in all his training. Seems like he's very popular for telling people to go out and run slow and long and increase their mileage and has a very cultish type appeal. However, his 2400M test is an awesome concept to measure improvements

HADD Results 3 weeks apart

Today: 3 Weeks Ago

138- 12:40 pace 12:35

150- 11:45 pace 12:50

161- 9:55 Pace 10:50

171- 8:15 pace 8:55

181- 6:40 pace 7:05

I also did the full 2400m interval. 3 weeks ago I did 2000m because it didn't line up with my long run expectations. I'm also incredibly in-efficient at a shuffling. I imagine my 135-150HR pace will drop dramatically once it gets closer to a more efficient pace.

I'll have to try the test sooner perhaps to get a better idea of my fitness! And yes, I am sure it can serve as a great benchmark.

I read the 20+ page theory on his training and it seems plausible for certain types of runners (maybe for myself who has always been very weak at longer distances). I can't imagine "running" at 12:40 pace, I think my legs would be more beat up with that! I agree with you, I think that your pace will drop when you are running at a more natural cadence.

From reading about HADD, it seems that the training can become pretty brutal as it progresses (phase 2?) Haven't been able to locate it yet to read, but I am curious what that entails.

How often are you fitting in faster running (ie 150s-200s) during the week? That is something I need to consider adding in, if the workload isn't too high!

Hope all of your training goes well the rest of the week! Looking forward to your updates!

The comeback is possible - I've just completed mine. It's been a slow and steady progression beyond my wildest expectations, which originally were just to lose weight. I never even considered setting any new PRs, which were (at age 25):

800 - 1:49

1500 - 3:49

5K - 15:05

10K - 32:05

HM - 1:17

M - 3:11

At 38 with 3 kids, I weighed 205 lbs and had not even thought about running for 10+ years. Then I was inspired by a "master" friend who was winning our local road races. My starting point was a 22:30 5K in August 2013, which at the time was very encouraging because I didn't get completely dusted by my wife.

Flash forward. I'm now 41, 160 lbs and this have set PRs at every distance over 5K.

My journey started without a training plan. I basically hobby-jogged 2 slow miles every other day (~8 mpw). This allowed me to lose weight quickly while slowly build strength back up in my tendons, etc. Within 4 months, I lost 25 lbs and was running 20 mpw. My 5K time went to 20:00. Then I got a little more serious.

I added tempos and intervals on the track (ladders, mile repeats, etc) and gradually upped my mileage to about 40 mpw with regular strength training (P90X) and treadmill runs whenever my feet/legs hurt.

I vividly remember being amazed at finishing a 9 mile "easy" run at 7:45 pace. I sat in an ice bath afterward with feet/tendons screaming, drinking beers like I had just won a gold medal. I began reading LetsRun and was amazed at how much mileage people were putting in. In my era (90s) it was all about quality. I could never consistently run more than 30-40 mpw in college due to nagging injuries.

Six months into my comeback, I was 39, 170lbs, and had a breakthrough race - 10M in 58:40 which surpassed my goal of 60:00.

To make a long story short, I stayed very consistent in my training for 2 years, gradually upping my mileage to about 60 mpw. At 40, I was down to 16:30, 34:00, and 1:15, but started to stagnate. 6 months ago, I was struggling with anxiety and motivation. I dropped to 40 mpw and my times were slipping. Then I got a little more serious.

I purchased a training plan for the first time in my life ($30) from an elite coach. I picked one that matched my own training philosophies, held me accountable, and didn't leave me bored or struggling to coach myself.

For the last 16 weeks, I've trained harder (60-80 mpw) and smarter than ever before. In the process, I've set 4 lifetime PRs at age 41:

10K - 31:38

10M - 54:30

HM - 1:12:42

M - 2:46:07

As I've just completed the training plan which culminated in a marathon, I'm now taking a two week break from running to relax, assess, and figure out the next phase of training and life. I'm well aware that I may never get any faster, but am amazed at what has been proven possible with a couple years of consistency and dedication.

My apologies if this post has come across as humblebragging, but thought it was relevant to this thread.

I love reading stuff like this. I'm coming from a much more injury-filled past (even if it was only a few years ago) and I'm trying to not really make a comeback, but compete well for the first time. I ran mid 16:40s in HS off of just jogging 2-3 miles a day. Injured ever since. I can usually show up off of very minimal training and run mid 17s, I'm a high responder but can never train for more than 2 months or so at a time.... Trying to do it extremely slowly now (about 6 months in and still just jogging easy 15-20 mpw, gonna build super slow over the winter).

Basically what I'm saying is that reading posts like yours (even if it is kind of a humblebrag) give me a bit more hope that I can train seriously one day.

Billy,

Thanks a lot for your story. That's good stuff! It shows that talent doesn't just dissipate. It's pretty phenomenal what the body is capable of. Weight is going to be my #1 challenge but I'm winning it so far. It's easy to run a couple months and pop off a good time at 150. Impossible at 180. Anyone that wants to try to make a comeback needs to look at your post and realize it isn't easy. Obviously you got to 60-80MPW before you started running age group class times and that's tough for most of us to do with a career and family.

JRGOAT-

I'm fitting in strides twice a week. 6-8 anywhere from 80-150. On top of that, I'm doing a speed development session every 10 days. I copied a recommendation from JK to a T. Basically, start doing sets of 60-80 all out. Change to 4x150, then 3x300, then 2(2x400). I'm going to follow this and then do a time trial 600 & 1000 as recommended, then fall back down to a month of the 60s&80s and use the above progression to prep for a couple outdoor unattached track meets. I have a couple races on my calendar. My old college has an alumni race at their invitational track meet in April, a big road mile in June, and I'm going to fit in a couple more things depending on progress. I have a couple buddies doing a 1,600 time trial Monday with me. That's exactly 3 weeks after the last time trial I did. I'm mainly using it as a V02 touch up every few weeks. Hoping for sub 5:20.

I would recommend anyone thinking about making a comeback reading the Training Wisdom of John Kellogg. It's a 300 page PDF online that really made me look at this attempt differently.

Another interesting stat. Of all my miles ran since November 1st (165). 33% on grass, 21% on track, and 46% on roads. Trying to keep under 50% on roads for the time being.

Newly Improved wrote:

Another interesting stat. Of all my miles ran since November 1st (165). 33% on grass, 21% on track, and 46% on roads. Trying to keep under 50% on roads for the time being.

Thanks for the insights on the Sprint works, I will attempt to cautiously build that into my schedule! From the looks of your running so far, 5:20 is definitely in the cards, if not faster!

Ive been taking the approach with surfaces, I only use pavement if I have to. Ive been getting most of long stuff in on trails, grass, dirt etc.

Week #3 is in the books for me, really trying to take advantage of this atypical warm weather in Michigan! I put in about 3.75 hours of running this week across 4 days and my legs are starting to respond/ recover faster.

Sunday: 75 min avg 9:19 pace

Monday; 35min avg 9:11 pace

Wednesday: 65 min avg 9:09 pace

Today: 50 min avg 8:55 pace, I ran the last 0.5mile of my run in 3:15 while going mostly uphill, I was sucking wind on that!

Outside of the short pick ups, keeping the heart rate in the 130s and trying not to let it vary.

Week one the pace was 10 to 12 min/miles, so there is some progress! I am aiming for 4+ hours next week followed by a down week.

I am not sure about you, but it takes a lot of self control not to chase someone down and/or let someone pass you while running these paces! I just need to stay disciplined and continue to build!

I've also delved into the JK material. This is an absolute goldmine!!! I can see the concepts from that material you are implementing in your training. I am going to have to take some serious notes!

Looks like you've got a pretty good set-up. Finished last week with 40 miles in 6 days. Did the alumni mile trial today on a track. Even had an old 3:35 guy that's a buddy of ours timing and giving splits! Ran 5:19 with pretty even splits. No kick at the end. I figured I was close enough to where I wanted to be. Out of 4 of us. 1 runs a little, 1 is trying to come back like me, and another runs a little. 4:29 won followed by 4:53, 5:19, and a drop out from the 4th. Down week this week. Maybe 25-30 miles with a couple days off. If I can just continue this trend I'm going to be in good shape in a couple months.

Nice work!!! Especially with keeping even splits throughout, I am sure that is a huge confidence boost. How did you feel effort-wise while racing? That is an awesome time, considering where you started and the amount of time you have been back at it!

When I ran my mile in June , I fell off the pace (sub 510 was the goal) after one lap and struggled to a 5:25. A week prior I did a 6x200m work out where I went from 33seconds down to 30sec with a 200m jog between each rep and felt great, but my performance was WAY off. Likely I was training too fast for my current fitness at that point and I was not running a lot of mileage. And most important, I forgot what it is like to make it hurt!!

This week going for 4-5 hours of total time running. 90 minutes on Sunday, 70 total yesterday with some short hill sprints, I'm planning on an easy 30 minutes today to shake things out...

Hey Newly Improved - great thread, but no updates since December... how are things going now, it would be great to know!

Too bad this died

When the OP said: "I'm not going to worry about nagging injuries", the "JAWS" theme could be heard in the backround.

Fremont Troll wrote:

When the OP said: "I'm not going to worry about nagging injuries", the "JAWS" theme could be heard in the backround.

Or he gave up after two months due to lack of willpower just like every other lazy runner who tries to make a "comeback.

If anything, he had too much motivation and "willpower". The way he anally documented his every step and measured everything, while ever-so-slightly overtraining all the time...I've been there, done that, gotten the crutches. If he had been just a little bit "lazier" and "unmotivated", he would have been fine. A guy like that needs a coach who will hold him back a bit, keep him more loose and spontaneous.

Speaker of Hard Truths wrote:

Fremont Troll wrote:

When the OP said: "I'm not going to worry about nagging injuries", the "JAWS" theme could be heard in the backround.

Or he gave up after two months due to lack of willpower just like every other lazy runner who tries to make a "comeback.