Documenting my comeback to competitive running. From 20 to 15 minutes in a 5k.

I find this thread kind of discouraging. I'm convinced you're making the same kind of mistakes I made years ago and yet you're going ahead despite warnings from multiple people. I could do like 7min/mile at around 155 bpm and 200m in 28 sec. and now I know I went way too fast way too early and kept going nowhere with that. Whatever, this is likely my last comment in this thread.

I love reading this. Great stuff so far, trial and error is sometimes needed so make sure to give yourself adequate breaks in your training.

I am on a comeback of my own, so I am drawing inspiration from your own accounts!

I may be making a mistake, but that's the purpose of airing it all out for everyone to see if it turns out I went too hard too soon. I don't think there's any harm in going out and running hard no matter what your background. If it makes you feel better I've decided to scrap the 200's and start doing 60-80's for a month. I'll get back to them eventually because I know how well they work at bringing all your corresponding race times down.

Update, end of week 4: 21 miles

Thursday: I modified the HADD heart rate test to be 2000m so I didn't get too much volume. I also counted this as my long run for the week. Once again, I'm doing the 8 mile turkey trot this Thursday in Dallas so I though it would be alright to move my long run forward.

2k @ 140 12:34/Mile

2k @ 150 12:50/Mile

2k @ 160 10:50/Mile

2k @ 170 8:55/Mile

2k @ 180 7:05/Mile

Say what you want, however I'm very happy I took the time to do this. I needed to realize that I was running harder than I should every day and without this workout I never would have had a clue. I'm not sure I slow down to 12:00 pace but definitely over 10 on my recovery runs for the time being. I'm not convinced I got adequate rest after the time trial either but I was aware of that going into the workout.

Friday: 3 miles easy in 30 minutes with a couple friends. They took off the last half mile and I kept it chill. Also started a new sprint routine. 2(2x60). 1 minute recovery and 8 minute recovery.

Saturday: 3 miles easy on the local high school cross country course. I honestly don't know distance. 34 minutes of total running. I brought my Labrador along to keep me honest and slow.

Sunday: OFF

Notes: I weighed 3 times last week and got 181.2-180.6-180.2. Plans for this week are 27-30 miles. Workouts planned are a hard mile today or tomorrow and an 8 mile long steady run on Thursday followed by 2(2x80) on the weekend. The hard mile is something I plan on doing every few weeks as a progress measurement. I won't be racing it but keeping a consistent effort every time. I'm going to do my best to get on grass almost every day this week to compensate for an increase in miles.

Newly Improved wrote:

I may be making a mistake, but that's the purpose of airing it all out for everyone to see if it turns out I went too hard too soon. I don't think there's any harm in going out and running hard no matter what your background. If it makes you feel better I've decided to scrap the 200's and start doing 60-80's for a month. I'll get back to them eventually because I know how well they work at bringing all your corresponding race times down.

It could very well be that you'd benefit more physiologically in the long run by taking it easy, but there also needs to be an element of fun to this, and sometimes having fun in running is testing yourself by moving quickly.

Enjoying the thread, keep on posting

Keep up the great work.

Another idea to keep in your head: when I was a kid in the 1970s, someone gave me a picture book on training for track and field. There were no fancy words like "GPP" or "periodisation", but they talked about "training to train" for the first half of the year. So think of it that way: you're trying to get your body ready to be able to handle the volume of stuff you want to do later on.

You have tons of leg strength and are doing the fast running already, so there's no real risk you will suddenly strain a hammy if you try to run fast. Once your weight comes down, those 200s may drop to 26. Many runners are not in that happy position.

The other two dimensions are (a) letting tendons and muscles adapt, and (b) waiting while your weight comes down. Both take time.

So, you cannot be too easy on those easy runs. It is much easier to increase mileage at an easy jog. It is much easier to run 5 miles at 10-min-mile pace than 8-min-mile. Pretty soon you'll be doing a 45min run most days, and your long ones will start heading past the hour. The weight loss will accelerate.

Thanks for keeping us posted...

Thanks for all the positive feedback. You're all right in pointing out the reason I'm mixing in faster runs early is to break the monotony. I'm trying not to overdo and just "touch" on some relatively faster stuff.

The schedule I'd like is a 20-30 minute Lactate Threshold run every week early in the week. Later in the week I want to rotate between steady hill repeats, 40-60 minute progressive runs, and "Time Trials" (in the Lydiard style where the long runs are LT/AT and the short are VO2 Max) I don't want to start fartleks until my heart rate can recover joggin. As \I've also switched out of the 200's and am going to do a month of 60-80's 4-6 reps to adapt. I did find the 200's were a bit much because I went 27.2 one week, and the next during what should have been high 26's, I couldn't break 28.

EuroDonkey, you bring to light the same concerns I do. It's a catch-22. I can't get my mileage up without losing weight, and I can't lose weight until I get my mileage up- without feeling like I'm eating rabbit food. I'm close though. At 5-6 miles a day I can eat 2,000-2,200 calories and lose at a steady rate.

Anyone who has done a consistent prescription of 100 MPW knows their body's weaknesses. I'm going to train as slow as I can at least 3 days a week and take Sunday's off for the next month or two.

I'll do my best to update this once or twice a week. To earlier comments, I won't get a Strava account for the time being. I don't like using a GPS at all. I had one of the first forerunner 301's that was like a brick and found I let my variations in pace:effort control my enthusiasm. Averages work just fine for now.

Newly Improved wrote:

I'll do my best to update this once or twice a week. To earlier comments, I won't get a Strava account for the time being. I don't like using a GPS at all. I had one of the first forerunner 301's that was like a brick and found I let my variations in pace:effort control my enthusiasm. Averages work just fine for now.

GPS watches have become a lot smaller these days, basically the size of a regular running watch, and are considerably more accurate. I understand the other reason why but figured I'd just let you know that they've improved a lot!

The problem with Strava is that people start assuming that if you didn't wear the watch, you didn't run ;-)

Hope everyone had a good turkey day.

Week 5 was one of high highs and low lows.

Monday: 5 miles total. Mile W/U. Mile Time Trial. 3 mile cool down. I ran a steady 5:30 which is encouraging. Didn't kick it in and had another lap atleast.

Tuesday: 5 at 9:00 pace with a friend. Ran a hillier route. Average heart rate 164

Wednesday: 3 @9:30 pace. I tried to run easy. Average heart rate was 158. Ran with a buddy who has no background in running and he takes 1 stepping to a whole mother level. Has to be like 10 yards ahead.

Thursday: 8 mile turkey trot in Dallas. Ran 1:08-1:09 watch time. This is where I was humbled seriously. I started to get a little confidence after my mile. First, not being on the starting line was new to me. My first mile was 8:00 but my GPS had 1.1, mainly because of all the jostling going on. Instead of relaxing I tried to not lose a lot of ground due to cross and put in a 7 flat effort. Lesson learned there. Should have just accepted a 9/1st mile and let the group thin out. 32 minutes at half. Afterwards I stopped at a water break I contemplated dropping out. The final 4 were the most I've hurt in YEARs Going up the final hill into the finish line I had to slow down so I didn't throw up in front of 10,000 people. Literally it almost all came up. To make matters worse I'm pretty sure my father in law thinks I'm making it all up- he beat me today. He knew I ran in college but he's never seen it. I told him I used to do 8 miles in 41-42 minutes in workouts and he laughed AT me in disbelief. Oh well. Average heart rate 178, max 184

Friday: easy 4 with my Labrador at the park. Probably over 10/pace. Heart rate 145

Saturday 3-5 miles is the difference between 28-30 MPW. I'm going by feel. Also need to get my speed development in.

Good news- I got an absolute steal on a Garmin 910XT with monitor. $75 from the local high school coach looking to upgrade. Someone knew I was looking for a heart rate monitor I've used that every day this week. My mile was on grass.

Talked to my best friend yesterday as we are contemplating a mile time trial in a month or two. He is a D1 head coach and 4 flat miler that hasn't ran in years. We've been feeding off each other to get back into it. Now I have a goal in place.

Finishing Week 5 (last week):

Saturday 11/28- 5 Mile Progressive run on the golf course with a friend.

Mile 1- 9:16 HR 151

Mile 2- 8:06 HR 171

Mile 3- 7:31 HR 175

Mile 4- 7:10 HR 179

Mile 5- 9:00 HR 160

Took Sunday off. Finished the week with 31 Miles

Week 6 (11/30-12/6):

Monday 11/30- 5 miles easy. 47:00. 158 HR. 2(3x80m) sprints

Tuesday - 6x500 meter hill repeats on the golf course. V02 work. Basically went to a long downhill par 5 and ran from the yardage markers. Used GPS for pace. Somewhere between 6-7% average incline. (6:55,6:55,6:45,7:00,6:40,6:00)

Good stuff. I've been trying to "come back" the last few months, however I was never a good runner and I'm in a bigger hole!

Keep up the reports, I could use some inspiration.

oh please wrote:

Good stuff. I've been trying to "come back" the last few months, however I was never a good runner and I'm in a bigger hole!

Keep up the reports, I could use some inspiration.

Thank you. For me going back and seeing such a huge progress in 6 weeks is really encouraging. I'm trying not to set expectations too high. Maybe I can encourage other has beens/never was to get out and give it another shot. 6 weeks ago I was sedentary. At least now I'm a hobby jogger.

Looks like it cut off half of my post.

Wednesday- 7 mile progressive in 1:01. Started at 9:30 and worked down to 7:45 pace. Felt WAY better than the 8 miler last Thursday. It's amazing what a week of training, adaptation, and not going out too hard can do for you. AVG HR 168.

Today- 4 miles in 40:00 real easy. HR 152.

Tentative weekly schedule:

Friday: 4 mile progressive with around 20 minutes at threshold pace. .5 mile shakeout afterwards.

Saturday: 9 LSD.

Sunday: 3 easy

Mileage goal: 37-38

Weight this morning was 176.4 . I'm down exactly 10 pounds from November 3rd. Eating around 2,000-2,500 calories a day depending on preference and daily mileage. If I can do another 8-10 pounds in December I'll be a completely different runner in a month. I expect my weight loss will slow pretty soon to a more manageable pace.

Keep it up, looks like you are making great progress! Keeping me inspired to continue building as well!

Thursday: 4.15 in 37:00. HR 159.

A little harder then planned but ran with a friend that's in a little better shape then me. More hills then usual.

Friday: 4 Mile progression threshold run.

800 splits:

5:00

4:26 9:26

4:02

3:48 7:50

3:34

3:30 7:04

3:25

3:15 6:40

31:00 4 miles

HR 172

Saturday: 9 Easy in 1:28. Legs were pretty beat up from yesterday. Ran really slow and ran by heart rate to make sure I recovered. Stayed on the local XC course for 6 miles and road for 3 because the softer grass started to flare up my Achilles. Pretty neat to see the difference between pace on grass vs. road. About 20-25 seconds a mile for the same heart rate. Average Heart Rate 152, peak 156.

Sunday: 3 easy in 30:00 on golf course. Speed Development and Core Circuit.

Weekly Miles: 37

Man it feels good to be able to run easy! 152 Heart rate on Saturday was the lowest I've been able to average and stay under 10:00/mile.

Sorry to bring some reality to this thread but you're about as close to a 15:00 5K as that bloke is on his blog kidding himself that he will one day run a 4:00 mile.

When are you hoping to achive this 15:00 5K?

As soon as I read things like 5:00 split for 800m and 3 easy in 30:00 I just think this has to be a troll.

You're taking it as an achivement to average under 10:00 in your mileage. You do know that a 15:00 5K involves running ~ 3 consecutive miles at < 5:00 pace?

I'm guessing you didn't read the thread. That's fair, I wouldn't have either.

I haven't ran a step until 6 weeks ago in 3 years. Considering I've ran, oh I don't know, 30-50 5k's in the 15 minute range, give or take, yes I'm aware of what it takes to get there. That doesn't count all the 20 minute 4 mile AT's, under 55 minute 10 milers, 8 minute 3k's, 25-26 minute 8k's, and 32-33 minute 10k's I've ran. Not great but LRC posters (ignorant) standards, but I know the work it takes. I've done 100 MPW consecutively when the weather sucks, and 15 mile runs the day after a hard race. Actually, If you go back to my first 15 mile week 6 weeks ago, I'm pleased with my progress.

I don't have a goal to when I want to run fast. The process is the goal. It could take 6 months it could take 24 months. (My guess is probably 10-12 months based on how I've bounced back from time off before). My weight is my biggest challenge right now. I'm losing it steady though.

I looked at an old log from one of my college seasons. Spring 2009. I averaged 10-12 miles a week under 5. Add all that up, count races, I've probably done over 1000 miles at sub 5 pace. Hardly a troll.