Former Columbia runner and American citizen Lisa Nemec (runs for Croatia) positive on doping control

I'm with you, Clerk. Done posting. This is ridiculous.

She tested positive.

If it was a false positive - then the coach, the country, and the astronomical rise will just get attributed to hard work. If not, then she's a doper and she should be treated that way. No Olympics. No money. Get out.

Hey Beyond Ridiculous,

Guess whose results these are, from the year AFTER she graduated from college. Hint: she made the US Olympic marathon team and has a PB of 2:22.

2006: Outdoor bests – 5,000m, 16:46.53; 10,000m, 34:35.48

So now are you going to tell me that Desi Davila's doping too?

Casually Observing wrote:

And ... I hate to stir the rumor mill, but screw it, it's a fact ... very noticeable acne on her shoulders and face. You don't notice this stuff if you don't see it in person.

That would be from steroid use, not EPO. I'm not saying she was doing either. The conventional androgenic steroids have acne as a side effect. That's all.

The article is very confusing through the translator. It claims the tests before and after Berlin Marathon were non-positive. Then "10 days later" gets notified a sanction was started. And then there's mention of the tests happening on a vacation after the marathon???

A couple of things stand out:

Taking a blood test within a day or two of a Marathon for EPO is a joke. The EPO reaches peak effectiveness days after any detection is possible.

A urine test detecting EPO would mean she was dosing right up to the minute of the event. That would do almost nothing to improve performance.

She could have a long and verifiable trail of PED use and the IAAF were finally punching her ticket.

It could be a swapped sample.

IAAF was seeking bribes to make it go away and did not get one.

It is very, very, very, VERY unlikely to be a false positive. It's not clear if it's a longitudinal positive or a sample positive.

If you've read this far, the proper procedure is her federation is notified by the anti-doping authority and then a sanction is handled in-country. It would be Berlin Marathon promoter, or the IAAF issuing the positive. The national federation is just an administrator of the sanction.

Fred

Perhaps your anger clouds your reading of my posts. But to clarify here is what I hope I conveyed:

At first she could only manage 9+ minute miles while training her fat-burning system. This was called pre-marathon training. Later, as her body adapted her pace dropped to about 7:30 pace. So yes, at that point her coach would agree with Canova that 9 minute miles is wrong training.

No, I"m not connected to her coach, etc. I'm connected to her alma mater, as should be clear.

Thanks for the compliment on my English. It wasn't even my college major. Then again, Columbia.

Your first language is..?

Because back in the 1980's collegians ran mega-mileage and dealt with the aches and pains by rubbing DMSO over their bodies. Remember?

I'll take your word for it that chemicals are easily available today.

Former Columbia Runner and Ivy League Guy - you are both demented. I mean, sure, it's slightly possible that somebody can improve like that, and there are other instances of people who have improved a lot - but that doesn't mean we can't at least have our suspicion aroused by large, sudden improvements. It is one of the hallmarks of drug cheats.

But, as another poster pointed out, we're not saying she's guilty because she improved suspiciously. We're saying she's guilty because she TESTED POSITIVE!! The other stuff is just going back and saying in retrospect, yes, look, she fits the stereotype of someone who started taking PEDs.

And that junk about training at 9:00/mile pace to train fat-burning ability is just totally bogus. If it were true, wouldn't all the slow joggers out there miraculously turn into great marathoners by accident? Maybe that's oversimplifying, but come on, seriously, go out and run your mileage really slow, and see how great you become. Plus, can you really "train" yourself to burn fat? I think your the ability to train your body to use one fuel over another would be very limited. You could maybe "get used" to it, but I'm skeptical of "training" your body to use fat.

Shock and disbelief are somewhat faltered, Lisa Stublić-Nemec in silence prepares to fight on that is not used. Far from marathon trails, roads means life, it must prove that it is not phony.

- I can not talk to the media until they give an official statement - she our marathon runner adding that mid-week to talk with a lawyer to see what to do next.

Just over a month ago 31 year old athlete at the Berlin marathon ran 2: 27.57 and met the standard for the Olympics, the second after those of London in 2012. Before the race was on to a blood test, and immediately thereafter gave a urine sample. And in both cases it was clear. Then it was, ten days later, when the season is over, the door of the apartment in Zagreb knocked Croatian Anti-Doping Agency.

In a rather confusing document that was received as a result of writes that a negative test as a positive. What - is not known. What's stranger is that she is the Berlin Marathon was the last race of the season and it is at the time of testing was on vacation. If you are located in Berlin were negative, it would be really incredible that a few days later took prohibited substances as a function of stimulus - resting.

By talking to a solicitor American of Croatian origin, who is in his father's homeland came in 2008, will not know what the procedure is expected. While the case is resolved, positive or negative, Lisa must not compete. And since these things can take, not excluded that all drawled to the very Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, starting on August 5 next year.

Both she and coach Slavko Petrovic are convinced in the innocence and would be really tragic that because of other people's mistakes miss the biggest competition for each athlete. And in Rio would be in a wider range of candidates for the medal for the fourth place at last year's European Championships in Zurich showed that it was capable of great achievements.

However, there would be neither the first nor the last that slipped unwittingly enter an illicit funds through food or medicine. And for such cases is provided for the suspension, such as Sandra Perkovic paused six months for substances in energy drinks.

If proven her guilt, Lisa could get a drastic punishment, maybe even a four-year suspension.

Read more news Section Athletics .

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hr&u=http://www.24sata.hr/atletika/lisa-stublic-nemec-pozitivna-na-doping-bez-nastupa-na-oi-444840&prev=search

http://www.24sata.hr/atletika/lisa-stublic-nemec-pozitivna-na-doping-bez-nastupa-na-oi-444840

http://www.index.hr/sport/clanak/novi-doping-skandal-u-hrvatskom-sportu-lisa-stublicnemec-pozitivna-upitne-igre-u-riju/853205.aspx

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https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hr&u=http://direktno.hr/en/2014/sport/29576/Lisa-Nemec-zna-za%25C5%25A1to-je-pala-na-doping-kontroli.htm&prev=search

Casually Observing wrote:

I'm with you, Clerk. Done posting. This is ridiculous.

She tested positive.

If it was a false positive - then the coach, the country, and the astronomical rise will just get attributed to hard work. If not, then she's a doper and she should be treated that way. No Olympics. No money. Get out.

You consider an astronomical improvement a 2:25:44 for a former talented runner? I'm just sort of at a loss for words for how your brain works and how clouded your judgement is.

Perhaps you don't like the Ivy League, this thread does have some creatively absurd posts and snarky language. Obviously no one's above the law in your book, especially not Ivy Leaguers.

But such a harsh stand on a 2:25:44, clearly shows your intent for keeping the sport clean. Lets get the people finishing off the medal podium to show we're keeping the sport clean by catching 'the dopers'. It would be almost as ridiculous as banning the person finishing last. For drugs of course.

Mike,

Yeah I was skeptical too about training the fat system. That's why I corresponded with her to learn about her training.

Think about it. Glycogen runs out after about an hour of hard activity. So it's a balancing act, you need to have efficient fat burning too. No, not all the slow joggers can become great marathoners. They're burning fat exclusively at 14 minute miles! Or something ridiculous like that. One sees a large improvement with training. A 2:25 performer is running 120 bpm somewhere in the 7-8 minute per mile range. It pays to do A LOT of training in this system, apparently.

But I accept your point about a positive result. I prefer, in this case, to wait for further information. Trust me, I'm as disgusted as the rest of you about doping. Frank Shorter recently made the valid point that we could simply do away with national testing bodies and use a completely independent body. That might cut down on corruption. Let's hope my wait and see attitude in this case proves correct. I suspect I'm seven time zones ahead of you folks. Signing off now.

Come on rojo, sometimes people are so ignorant they're just ignorant. Croatia was part of Yugoslavia which was a non-aligned state, so to say that all of those communist countries might as well as been Soviet just shows how little you do understand.

GLycogen doesn't run out after an hour of running...It doesn't even truly run out after a marathon because we spare it. But we have enough Glycogen to run hard for 2hrs or so.

And fat burning running slow doesn't translate.

The best way to shift fuel utilization is actually to run out of fuel.

Are you seriously having fun? Clearly a positive test is a positive test. A strawman is a strawman, honestly. We can do dialectics all day and night.

But the performance was not suspicious, nor incredible. It was very good for her, not astronomical.

And the training, who knows. Women are different. Visually Lisa is very thin, clearly not one of the more ridiculous cases of pudgy EPOing Eastern Europeans running 2:25 marathons.

You should read posts more thoroughly before getting emotional. I'm very clear on what I think happened. Its a seven letter word thats also a country.

I hate being one of the people that makes accusations on an anonymous message board. I have seen crazier things than Lisa Nemic's marathon PB in Track and Field and there are things that are so much more absurd performance wise, its almost hard to comprehend how the sports governing body lets it happen.

Like I said before, its almost as ridiculous as banning the person finishing last, for drugs.

Former Columbia Runner wrote:

Because back in the 1980's collegians ran mega-mileage and dealt with the aches and pains by rubbing DMSO over their bodies. Remember?

I'll take your word for it that chemicals are easily available today.

Maybe you did

Clerk wrote:

Compare that to the evidence of her doping: her working with a coach with a history of other athletes doping, her huge improvement (yes that is evidence), and, of yeah, the fact that she tested positive!

From a sports federation that has processed swapped samples, accepted bribes, never tested positive many, many podium positives.

I'm not saying she's clean.

No fair warning from the federation either. Part of the WADA process is she can be asked to explain the values before a sanction. There apparently was no inquiry. They just opened the case on her.

Why pick her out of the herd? is she too poor to bribe anyone?

beyond ridiculous wrote:

The best way to shift fuel utilization is actually to run out of fuel.

Yes, but not in a training phase. You only shift that at the end of a training phase before a race during or after a taper. "hitting the wall" is not part of marathon training.

Running longer and slower pace has its benefits in the fat burning phase of slow twitch muscle contraction and actually spares glycogen exactly what this training program was doing. Maybe names like Lydiard come to mind when thinking of this kind of training.

Yes, yes, Canova talked about training the fat burning, but not at 7-8 minute mile pace. Blah, blah, blah. Yes you are 7 time zones ahead of the folks posting here. You're in the jungles with head hunters chasing down some hobby joggers for supper. Yum, yum eat em up.

Another Former Ivy Leauger wrote:

Like I said before, its almost as ridiculous as banning the person finishing last, for drugs.

Ahh, but THE SHOW!!! Now you know they are tough on dopers. They bust another minor athlete.

"However, there would be neither the first nor the last that slipped unwittingly enter an illicit funds through food or medicine. And for such cases is provided for the suspension, such as Sandra Perkovic paused six months for substances in energy drinks."

For sure man, someone spiked her toothpaste while she was on vacation in Portugal. It happens all the time.

Never leave your toothpaste on the counter unprotected, while you're out there running those fat burning 9 minute miles.