Gruesome: Elite shatters femur after colliding with non-elite in Toronto

The Cable Car guy wrote:

That went over your head a tad. Do you really think it matters when the point is that there is basically train tracks on the street? It doesn't matter how large the gap is if someone just had their foot caught in one. It only needs to be big enough.

I think you're missing the point. People are commenting about the safety of the roadway, but they are making it clear that they are not actually familiar with the roadway in question. If you are going to argue that this occurrence was a result of inherent danger resulting from roadway design rather than an unforeseeable freak event, you should probably have been to the roadway yourself at some point. People who are calling it a cablecar have obviously never actually seen the tracks with their own eyes.

cooperaa wrote:

The implication from Chepchirchir's agency, Volare Sports, that the other runner was a 'jogger' is insulting... unless they're also calling Chepchirchir a jogger since they were both running the same pace. The guy she cut in front of had every right to be there and run his race. He did after all train for it for months like everyone else.

Sorry, but a man running 2:33 is doing so for recreation; a women doing so is doing so as a profession. Chepchirchir is, anyway. There is a universe of difference between the two. (And wasn't that pack way ahead of 2:33 pace?)

It is just a statement of fact that the 2:33 guy is an amateur. Maybe "jogger" isn't the nicest term to use but hopefully the 2:33 guys of the world aren't too butt-hurt. It is probably not the agent's first language which could factor into the word choice.

You can't be serious.

Precious Roy wrote:

In a race the size of Toronto, they really should put the elite fluids in the middle of the road. Once the elites pass, volunteers move the tables out of the way. Otherwise, have the regular water station on one side of the road and the elites on the other to make sure there are no collisions. Elite runners should not have to filter through locals to get fluids. Very poor management.

Man Overboard wrote:

Huh? Unless she has private medical insurance she WILL be going home with a big hospital bill. Only Canadian residents who pay (exorbitant) taxes get "free" health care in Canada.

The hospital would do the emergency surgery thengive her a bill, with zero expectation of being paid. Foreign visitors are looked after this way all of them time and large hospitals budget for a certain amount of unpaid "bills."

Our taxes are fine.

Man Overboard wrote:

Whomever she collided with was running at the same pace as her, so unless she is a "jogger"...he's not either.

What a stupid point! Listen closely: she is a woman, he is a man. By most logical equivalencies that makes her performance at least 10% better than his if they hit the same time. The equivalent of 15 minutes difference in ability would be a rough guess.

[quote]joho wrote:

I can't remember the last sizable race that I ran that didn't have tables on BOTH sides of the road at each water stop. Runners should not have to all cut over to the same side of the road for fluids.

They did have water/Gatorade tables on both sides.

This was at the elite stop with their pre-filled bottles. I presume you don't want those on both sides, too? Don't be ridiculous.

real TO wrote:

What a stupid point! Listen closely: she is a woman, he is a man. By most logical equivalencies that makes her performance at least 10% better than his if they hit the same time. The equivalent of 15 minutes difference in ability would be a rough guess.

Always trust Letsrun to bring out the misogynists.

triple zero wrote:

The elite bottle station setup was made very clear at the technical meeting. Tables were always on the right side of the road. The location of the bottle stations were listed both in the technical meeting and the email sent out to invited elite runners. I was further back of Chepchirchir but it was still a little crowded at that point in the race. Approaching the 5k mark, I knew I had to get over to the right because I knew where the table was at the 5k mark (because I listened at the technical meeting), so I drifted right and made a point of telling the guys around me what I was doing. Ridiculous that an entire pack and their pacers abruptly cut across the road because they weren't paying attention.

E-mail? You must be joking.

Congratulations on your listening ability. I am sure that when you run races in Kenya, Japan or Brazil you will find everything to be very clear.

Egun wrote:

said to my wife 'what the hell are they thinking, marathons will do anything to run routes through ethnic neighborhoods to be like New York, that is ridiculously dangerous'.

Your take on this is idiotic. Literally hundreds of thousands of runners have gone over the tracks in the history of Toronto marathons. The fact that one person had an injury doesn't make your self-congratulatory point.

It is not exactly hard to run in a straight line parallel to the tracks. And guess what? 15,000 people proved it.

Also, Bathurst between Bloor and Fork York is an "ethnic neighbourhood"? When were you last in the city?

Stupid people are exhausting.

Um, yeah wrote:

If you hadn't turned off the coverage after only 15 minutes, you might have noticed that Bathurst is four lanes wide (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6591311,-79.4087865,3a,20.9y,174.79h,81.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sATVvxqX2sIqrRafOT8Z_iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with the tracks only in the middle two lanes,

The tracks conveniently enough run in rather straight lines and are easily visible, making it relatively easy for most racers to find plenty of road space where they are not trying to run on top of them.

This^

If I was going overseas on business (which is just what this athlete was doing), I would probably take the time to make sure that I knew exactly what any important email from the event said. There are plenty of tools to help people who struggle to understand the language.

equality for all wrote:

real TO wrote:

Listen closely: she is a woman, he is a man. By most logical equivalencies that makes her performance at least 10% better than his if they hit the same time. The equivalent of 15 minutes difference in ability would be a rough guess.

Always trust Letsrun to bring out the misogynists.

Are you a complete simpleton?

I was responding to a post that said that because she was running the same speed as the 2:33 guy, she was in the same category as him. That is obviously false, because 2:33 is a fairly elite time for a woman (15 minutes from the world lead most years) while 2:33 is nice but far from elite for a man (30 minutes off world lead).

I can't believe I am spelling this out for you; I honestly think you must be trolling. Nobody can be so stupid as to have reached the conclusion that you did.

get a translator wrote:

real TO wrote:

E-mail? You must be joking.

Congratulations on your listening ability. I am sure that when you run races in Kenya, Japan or Brazil you will find everything to be very clear.

If I was going overseas on business (which is just what this athlete was doing), I would probably take the time to make sure that I knew exactly what any important email from the event said. There are plenty of tools to help people who struggle to understand the language.

Were you at the technical meeting. Please tell me the "tools" you speak of! (Better yet, encourage Chepchirchir's agent, the pacer or the race to invest in them.)

There is probably a story every year about some US or UK elite who has some logistical issue at foreign race - "oh, look at those backwards organizers!" But when a foreign runners has a pretty run-of-the-mill problem (wrong side of the road at a water station? um, it happens), everyone is piling on like she missed the start or something.

I agree it was her fault (or her pacer's), nobody else's responsibility. But the woman snottily bragging that she "actually listened during the technical meeting" and this would have solved all the problems is a bit much.

Having run this race many times, including on the new course configuration, what inevitably happens is that a lot of "sub-elite" runners do clog up the road.

Think about it. There are many, many people who go out well under sub-6 mile pace and then slow down, ending up well slower than 2:33/1:16 pace.

This crash was exactly the place in the race where this happens, about 5k in. A woman or man running steady pace is going to be coming up behind all sorts of people who got out too quick and are backing off the pace.

I don't know if this was the case for 2:33 guy, but it is odd he somehow got up there ahead of the lead women (way under 2:33 pace), and getting passed by them. Not his job to make way for them, and he was holding a line, but the overall issue does arise when elite women run a steady pace around more erratic amateurs and have to weave through them.

Also, what did the pacer say to make that poor dude quit? That sucks and maybe the race can give him a free entry next year or something/.

I'm not talking about the meeting. I'm talking about the email. Yes, it might be hard to understand what is being said at the meeting, but the email should be pretty easy to figure out, assuming it wasn't sent the day before the race or something like that.

How much investment is necessary to have someone translate an email?

She tripped crossing over street car tracks. It was a freak accident end of story.

Location of bottles aside, this accident could have happened at any point along the course with streetcar tracks where people are running the tangents and crossing the road.

real TO wrote:

Were you at the technical meeting. Please tell me the "tools" you speak of! (Better yet, encourage Chepchirchir's agent, the pacer or the race to invest in them.)

Given that the agent was quoted in the news item, presumably the agent can understand the English as was spoken at the Technical Meeting.

One would think that the agent had a way to communicate to their athlete as that would be rather crucial when acting in their capacity as an agent.

One would also think that part of that capacity is ensuring that their athlete is aware of all the crucial details that are relevant to them performing to the best of their ability (and thereby making the most money possible for the agent).

real TO wrote:

[quote]joho wrote:

I can't remember the last sizable race that I ran that didn't have tables on BOTH sides of the road at each water stop. Runners should not have to all cut over to the same side of the road for fluids.

They did have water/Gatorade tables on both sides.

This was at the elite stop with their pre-filled bottles. I presume you don't want those on both sides, too? Don't be ridiculous.

Did you not read my entire post or are you just trying to be a dick?

The rest of my post:

"Was this strictly an elite water stop? If so, the elites should have know which side of the road to be on. The male pacer seemed to be directing the women he was pacing. Why didn't he know? "

real TO wrote:

Having run this race many times, including on the new course configuration, what inevitably happens is that a lot of "sub-elite" runners do clog up the road.

Think about it. There are many, many people who go out well under sub-6 mile pace and then slow down, ending up well slower than 2:33/1:16 pace.

This crash was exactly the place in the race where this happens, about 5k in. A woman or man running steady pace is going to be coming up behind all sorts of people who got out too quick and are backing off the pace.

In the screen grab included with

can you identify who this sub-elite male is who was slowing down in front of the Kenyan?

Certainly doesn't look to be anyone blocking her path ahead of her.

Or was she instead choosing to cut across in front of someone running as fast or faster than her without checking if she had left enough room?

real TO wrote:

equality for all wrote:

Always trust Letsrun to bring out the misogynists.

Are you a complete simpleton?

I was responding to a post that said that because she was running the same speed as the 2:33 guy, she was in the same category as him. That is obviously false, because 2:33 is a fairly elite time for a woman (15 minutes from the world lead most years) while 2:33 is nice but far from elite for a man (30 minutes off world lead).

I can't believe I am spelling this out for you; I honestly think you must be trolling. Nobody can be so stupid as to have reached the conclusion that you did.

According to another poster, she's a convicted doper. I doubt that the guy is and who knows what time she could run clean.

All I can say is, if she is in fact a doper, I cannot be happier that this happened to her. Shattered femurs for all dopers!!!

Shame on the Toronto Marathon for even inviting her to the race! More elite athletes need to take a stand and say that they will not compete at events where any formerly convicted athlete receives either appearance or prize money for competing.