My high school XC coach told me to go out with a 5:30 first mile for a 5k and follow it up with a 5:40 second mile, then try all I can to hold on to the finish. I have a meet tomorrow and the coach is viewing it as more of a workout/chance to get used to race strategy for the postseason than a meet he wants us all to go all in on, but this strategy still sounds like suicide.
5:40/6:00/6:20 for high 18:30s is probably more reasonable for my ability as I haven't had a good race yet this season, but an 11:10 2-mile split? It's insane considering that I only ran 12:00 in a 2-mile season opener. Should I do what my coach told me to do and risk a possible DNF for the sake of a workout, or try to pace it more intelligently and run a much better race?
Coach wants me to intentionally go out too fast and blow up...good idea?
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try it and see what happens.
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Chicago . wrote:
try it and see what happens.
Exactly what I was thinking. I did the same thing with on of my girls last week. Guess what she held it and ran 1 minute faster than the prior week.
Do what your coach says and be positive about it. Your coach thinks you can do it. Wouldn't it be great if it was true. You'll never know if you hold back. -
If you are a senior and have nothing else to lose, then why not? If you are a sophomore and have two more years of xc ahead, then why not? I don't see any bad reasoning with this. Ask your coach to be at every mile marker to make sure you are on track.
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Maybe your coach thinks that you can go faster than you think that you can go.
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reminds me of a story about ted hayden, post-collegiate track coach in chicago...
an athlete was getting ready to race his first 880, i believe. he asked ted for race strategy advice. ted said, "you should take the pace out HARD, hold that pace and kick it in."
The athlete took it out hard. He did not hold the pace and he did not kick it in. -
Your point is? What it sounds like you mean is that I should go out fast, like what my coach wants, and then try to continue to hold the pace and kick. That's obvious.
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Don't do it stupid though. There is a right way and a wrong way to go out hard.
If you want to run a 5:30 first mile, don't do something like running 400m 70-85-85-90 second 400m splits. That's what most people think when they think "go out hard!". That is setting yourself up for disaster. Running clean 82s though, will set you up much better.
There is a difference. Make sure you're not sprinting off the starting line. Don't think, "run hard!". Only think "run 5:30". If it helps, ask your coach where the first 400m is, and then start "going hard" there, to avoid being swept up in the field sprint off the line. -
>and risk a possible DNF
So you might quit? -
Quip wrote:
Don't do it stupid though. There is a right way and a wrong way to go out hard.
If you want to run a 5:30 first mile, don't do something like running 400m 70-85-85-90 second 400m splits. That's what most people think when they think "go out hard!". That is setting yourself up for disaster. Running clean 82s though, will set you up much better.
There is a difference. Make sure you're not sprinting off the starting line. Don't think, "run hard!". Only think "run 5:30". If it helps, ask your coach where the first 400m is, and then start "going hard" there, to avoid being swept up in the field sprint off the line.
Smart thinking right here. -
I love it when Letsrun gets it right.
Quip, has it exactly right. Don't sprint off the line! Your race will be even better if you manage to run only 5:40 the first mile and then 5:30 for the second.
OP, your 12:00 from your opener shouldn't matter 6 weeks later. You have an entirely different set of mitochondria, it is called training.
You need to get it through your head that the entire reason you run duel meets is to practice racing so you get it right when it matters. You really need to do exactly what your coach has suggested. At the very least, you will learn that you don't really risk a DNF.
Maybe some #s will help. Let's say you can run 18:36 or exactly 6:00 pace. That means you can roughly run 7:00 pace for a half marathon, 13.1 miles. With your 5:30 first mile, your 5:40 second mile and a 6:00 paced kick of 36 seconds for the final 0.1, if you fill in your third mile at 7:00, then your time would be 18:46.
Now you may think you can't run 7:00 pace after 2 miles in 11:10 and you might be right, you might need to run the 5th half mile in the race in 4:00 to recover and then a 3:00 6th half to run that 3rd fill-in 7:00 mile but you still run 18:46. -
We want our kids to do the same this weekend at van Cortlandt. Its only 4k and the course narrows when they go into the woods. We are going to use this race for the kids to see how it feels to go out faster than they should.
In the month to follow, they have all their championship races which are going to be run with as even splits as possible. Hopefully, the even split starts will feel easy compared to this weekend. -
I think this is great advice. He has given you "permission" to run stupid. That's awesome. I'm sure he thinks you are capable of running faster but you're being tenuous and just barely sticking your toe in the water. He wants you to jump in head first.
I did exactly what your coach in purposing in my 4th collegiate meet. I had been getting drilled and I told my coach before one race that I was going to go out hard with some of the faster guys on the team and run with them until I dropped, even if it meant jogging the last mile. He told me to go for it.
The rest of the year I was right up there with them. -
Why does make a possible DNF for you? So, you run the first 2 miles like y our coach wants you to (if you even can do that) and then you're totally dead at that point..ok, so a super slow jog for 400 meters and then pick it up as much as you can after that for the finish. No need to DNF unless you are having a medical issue.
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Totally worth it but for no more than one race a year. Find your limits.
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Another vote in favor of this tactic.
This is how you learn your limits.
I wish the pros would try this more often.
We have no idea how fast the worlds best 5000m runners can run because they never try this. -
Even the splits your giving to run a time you think yyour capable of are bad. If your going out in 5:40 and then slowing to 6:00 then to 6:20 your going out to hard as it is. Slow down! When i speak with my athlete who had an avg pace of 5:40/mi if their hitting the first mile in 5:30 i don't see this as a problem depending on the course. But if your going out 15 to 20 to 30 sec faster the first mile then your avg pace should be for the race this is a problem. You should get the the mile mark as comfortably as possible and feel like you can take off if needed. The race shouldnt be a death march 400m into the race.
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(JIO%#^ijnfv8960 wrote:
OP, your 12:00 from your opener shouldn't matter 6 weeks later. You have an entirely different set of mitochondria, it is called training.
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I say it is a good mental exercise.
Gladiators entered the arena knowing that they can die and this made them stronger.
You can learn a lot from this. -
George Ilie wrote:
I say it is a good mental exercise.
Gladiators entered the arena knowing that they can die and this made them stronger.
You can learn a lot from this.
Only 50% of them got stronger.
