How do I Avoid Turning into a Typical Slow Twitcher with Age?

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  • futurefaster
    4 years ago 10/03/2015 10:00pm CDT
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    I'm 26. I'm relatively new to running (started taking it seriously about a year ago), but I have some pretty lofty goals for the future.

    I'm always on Strava, and one trend I've noticed with a lot of guys in their 30s and 40s is a huge drop in relative speed at shorter distances. These guys are talented, fit runners, but their 5K speed is sometimes only a few seconds faster per mile than their half marathon speed. I follow a 2:38 marathoner whose 5k PR is 17:35.

    My question is if there's a way to prevent this loss of speed as I continue to climb the ladder towards 30. More 5K races? More 400m repeats? More 1,000M repeats? What's the protocol?
  • speed thrills
    4 years ago 10/03/2015 10:13pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    futurefaster wrote:

    I'm 26. I'm relatively new to running (started taking it seriously about a year ago), but I have some pretty lofty goals for the future.

    I'm always on Strava, and one trend I've noticed with a lot of guys in their 30s and 40s is a huge drop in relative speed at shorter distances. These guys are talented, fit runners, but their 5K speed is sometimes only a few seconds faster per mile than their half marathon speed. I follow a 2:38 marathoner whose 5k PR is 17:35.

    My question is if there's a way to prevent this loss of speed as I continue to climb the ladder towards 30. More 5K races? More 400m repeats? More 1,000M repeats? What's the protocol?

    In short -- use it or lose it.
  • Randy Oldman
    4 years ago 10/03/2015 10:26pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    I don't know of any correlation between age and fiber-types. Maybe someone can explain.

    Anyway, running, drills and high-weight low rep weight training will help slow down the impact of aging but at the end of the day there's no way to buck nature.
  • old and slow
    4 years ago 10/03/2015 10:38pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    the only way to avoid slowing down is to stop altogether.
    don't do that.
  • Sammy H
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 12:06am CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    26...





    ... wait till you hit 55...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RvV3nn_de2k#t=31
  • Coach D
    registered
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 12:35am CDT
    re: Randy Oldman
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    http://www.researchgate.net/publication/265558154_Which_muscles_compromise_human_locomotor_performance_with_age`

    Drop jumps from reasonable (18"-30") heights;
    Depth jumps from reasonable (12"-18") heights.

    In addition to squats, hills, sleds.
  • Aleways slow?
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 10:36am CDT
    re: coach d
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    Do you know if these guys were once faster at short distances? You mention the guy having a PR of 17:35.
  • Father Time
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 1:30pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    Remains undefeated
  • fred
    registered
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 2:33pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    How do you know they lost speed? Maybe they never had any speed.

    If you want to get faster stop doing distance, and train as a sprinter
  • fred
    registered
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 2:47pm CDT
    re: fred
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    Flying 200s, straights and curves

    http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/250879-London-Diamond-League-Sainburys-Anniversary-Games-2013/video/718093-WOW-Symmonds-and-Mulders-Final-Speed-Session-Before-London#.VhGAx_-FMeg
  • Bad Wigins
    registered
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 8:49pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    The 5000 is not a "fast twitch" event just because you make a little bit more anaerobic effort. "Fast twitch" vs "slow twitch" is useless bro science anyhow.

    It is also a myth that age turns anyone into slow-twitchers. Sprinters maintain their speed far longer than distance runners maintain their endurance. Guido Muller ran a 59 second 400 when he was 70, and a 62 when he was 75! If you just started running, chances are he's faster than you. He's much closer to the open WR's in that event than LRC distance hero Ed Whitlock is to the WR's in any event.

    How does a fast old man stay so fast, because running fast is a skill first and an effort second. Distance runners learn things the other way around. To learn speed you must learn and practice the phases of the 100m, even if you don't race the event.
  • jjjjjj
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 9:08pm CDT
    re: Bad Wigins
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    A 59 second 400m is not exactly maintaining fast twitch speed unless he was a 59 second 400m runner when he was 20. 44 second quarter milers turn into 54-60 second quarter milers over time, if that. How to arrest this inevitable speed loss is the question. I'd think that all the speed workouts that the young do would be applicable to the older.
  • Runningart2004
    registered
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 10:14pm CDT
    re: jjjjjj
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    Lift weights to maintain your current muscle mass. As you age testosterone level drops and muscle atrophies. That's why you get slower.

    Alan
  • atypical twitcher.....
    4 years ago 10/04/2015 10:25pm CDT
    re: Runningart2004
    Forum Index
    There is a difference between just getting slower and getting slower at shorter distances compared to longer distances. It all comes down to specificity of training.

    A lot of older runners train more for marathons than young runners do. If they don't do as much fast running, they get slower.

    Last year I ran some ultras and it was shocking how much my speed I lost. This year I have been racing shorter distances and my 5k time is a minute faster.
  • not jjjjjj
    4 years ago 10/05/2015 7:46am CDT
    re: jjjjjj
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    jjjjjj wrote:

    A 59 second 400m is not exactly maintaining fast twitch speed unless he was a 59 second 400m runner when he was 20. 44 second quarter milers turn into 54-60 second quarter milers over time, if that. How to arrest this inevitable speed loss is the question. I'd think that all the speed workouts that the young do would be applicable to the older.

    You, sir, must know some extremely fast 70-year-olds, if you don't think 59 seconds at 70 is fast.
  • agip
    registered
    4 years ago 10/05/2015 7:58am CDT
    re: futurefaster
    Forum Index
    futurefaster wrote:

    I'm 26. I'm relatively new to running (started taking it seriously about a year ago), but I have some pretty lofty goals for the future.

    I'm always on Strava, and one trend I've noticed with a lot of guys in their 30s and 40s is a huge drop in relative speed at shorter distances. These guys are talented, fit runners, but their 5K speed is sometimes only a few seconds faster per mile than their half marathon speed. I follow a 2:38 marathoner whose 5k PR is 17:35.

    My question is if there's a way to prevent this loss of speed as I continue to climb the ladder towards 30. More 5K races? More 400m repeats? More 1,000M repeats? What's the protocol?

    I think you are essentially right, although I don't know about that 5k/HM claim.

    For me in my late 40s, my mile speed is getting closer and closer to my 5k pace - it's freaky. Still a huge difference between my 5k and HM pace.

    But yeah, as others are saying, you train to your weakness. You train like a miler or 800 guy and you'll keep more of your speed. Pretty simple.
  • not jjjjjj
    4 years ago 10/05/2015 8:17am CDT
    re: jjjjjj
    Forum Index
    jjjjjj wrote:

    A 59 second 400m is not exactly maintaining fast twitch speed unless he was a 59 second 400m runner when he was 20. 44 second quarter milers turn into 54-60 second quarter milers over time, if that. How to arrest this inevitable speed loss is the question. I'd think that all the speed workouts that the young do would be applicable to the older.

    You, sir, must know some extremely fast 70-year-olds, if you don't think 59 seconds at 70 is fast.
  • Ca$hclay
    4 years ago 10/05/2015 12:10pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    I agree with the "use it or lose it" philosophy and engage fast twitch frequently by playing basketball and flag football. Both sports require me to sprint a fair amount, especially football. I also chase the kids around on the soccer field. When I was competing a year or so back, I raced on the track quite a bit. A lot of the guys I raced against did not and it showed.

    At 26, you are not going to lose much speed for the next few years. Mix up your training and don't neglect the oval.
  • Working for the Peds
    4 years ago 10/05/2015 1:26pm CDT
    re: Ca$hclay
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    Ca$hclay wrote:
    I also chase the kids around on the soccer field. .

    I hope everyone is aware that you are just "training".
  • xfitter38232
    4 years ago 10/05/2015 1:57pm CDT
    re: futurefaster
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    Crossfit and getting some sprinting work in will keep you fast and buff