any thoughts...
why do elite ultra-runners weigh more than elite marathoners?
They former run as much if not more than the latter in training - yet they seem to weigh much more.
any thoughts...
why do elite ultra-runners weigh more than elite marathoners?
They former run as much if not more than the latter in training - yet they seem to weigh much more.
seriousquestion wrote:
why do elite ultra-runners weigh more than elite marathoners?
They former run as much if not more than the latter in training - yet they seem to weigh much more.
Intensity - quality vs. quantity. Elite marathoners have more quality miles in their training - they both (1) run faster; and (2) run more miles at a faster pace. Ultra-runners run more miles, but slower miles.
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but isn't calories burned determined by distance - with any discrepancy in burn negligible?
that is: cal burned 1 mile running fast = cal burned 1 mile running slow
The same reason mountain goats and bighorn sheep weigh more than pronghorns and springboks.
In all seriousness, there is a certain amount of muscle and bulk necessary to thrive at distances longer than 26.2. Your body simply takes a massive amount of pounding and must be stronger. That bulk prohibits as much success at 26.2, where the gazelles of the running world can breeze through with smaller frames.
I've never run an ultra. It's speculation.
serious question OP wrote:
but isn't calories burned determined by distance - with any discrepancy in burn negligible?
that is: cal burned 1 mile running fast = cal burned 1 mile running slow
First they don't generally train more and they eat more anyway.
RacingtheCantaloupe wrote:
The same reason mountain goats and bighorn sheep weigh more than pronghorns and springboks.
In all seriousness, there is a certain amount of muscle and bulk necessary to thrive at distances longer than 26.2. Your body simply takes a massive amount of pounding and must be stronger. That bulk prohibits as much success at 26.2, where the gazelles of the running world can breeze through with smaller frames.
A lighter body will take less of a pounding. That's one of the main reasons why the special forces guys aren't jacked like Arnold, but tend to be closer to wiry runner types.
I think it's selection bias. If ultra running had a deeper talent pool you'd find the runners getting lighter.
It's actually not true that elite ultrarunners fit any different of a body type than marathoners. Runner's Connect did an article on this. Having added "bulk", esp. the upper body, actually hurts rather than helps performance.
http://runnersconnect.net/ultra-training/size-ultramarathon/
I'm 5'9 1/2"/118 lbs and have had a farily successful move from the marathon to ultras.
My nephew is 6'4" and weighs 135 lbs. He is much skinnier than Teg and my nephew doesn't run at all. Running doesn't make you skinny. Look at all the overweight marathoners.
Elite marathoners likely care more about their diets and usually have a coach. Do elite ultra runners have coaches?
Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:
RacingtheCantaloupe wrote:The same reason mountain goats and bighorn sheep weigh more than pronghorns and springboks.
In all seriousness, there is a certain amount of muscle and bulk necessary to thrive at distances longer than 26.2. Your body simply takes a massive amount of pounding and must be stronger. That bulk prohibits as much success at 26.2, where the gazelles of the running world can breeze through with smaller frames.
A lighter body will take less of a pounding. That's one of the main reasons why the special forces guys aren't jacked like Arnold, but tend to be closer to wiry runner types.
I think it's selection bias. If ultra running had a deeper talent pool you'd find the runners getting lighter.
Wait wait wait
SoF guys aren't wiry. They may have low body fat, but they aren't skinny. They are strong.
Why would they need to be so skinny? Their body takes a pounding not because they are running 16 miles a day at 5 minutes. They take a pounding cause they are freakin operators.
Maybe the Marines are skinnier ... they run a lot.
But no.
No.
Genetics and selection bias. The marathon is a much more coveted and has a much larger base of competition which means to reach the very top, selection bias is more picky. Athletes are weeded by their physiology as they the level increases until you are only left with the athletes whom posess all of the physiological requirements to run that fast.
That does not mean that bodytype is the only difference between the elite ultrarunner and the elite marathon runner although it certainly is very important and if you don't posess a super-light frame, you have to be much stronger in other physiological qualities to balance this but that is a rare thing because you are going up against another genetic freak who already posesses those qualities in abundance.
If ultrarunning ever becomes as big as marathon running, selection bias will also become just as picky and the ultra-lightweights will rule the roost in that too. Basically, the elite u ltrarunners are getting away with their bodytype right now because the talent pool isn't deep enough. It's not so much what they are eating or how much they run that causes them to weigh more than the east Africans, it's their genetics and no matter how much they try to get to that weight, they may not be able to perform optimally there.
nssnsnsns wrote:
Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:A lighter body will take less of a pounding. That's one of the main reasons why the special forces guys aren't jacked like Arnold, but tend to be closer to wiry runner types.
I think it's selection bias. If ultra running had a deeper talent pool you'd find the runners getting lighter.
Wait wait wait
SoF guys aren't wiry. They may have low body fat, but they aren't skinny. They are strong.
Why would they need to be so skinny? Their body takes a pounding not because they are running 16 miles a day at 5 minutes. They take a pounding cause they are freakin operators.
.
They do a lot of running and a lot of marching with heavy backpacks. They aren't as skinny as runners because they are being selected for other traits in addition to endurance, but the bigger body types do not generally handle the pounding from long marches with heavy backpacks.
You have it backwards. The big body types are good for rucking and swimming with fins. Skinny endurance guys better for long runs obstacle courses swimming without fins.
You also need to realize selection and training is not the same as being an operator.
They are not wiry skinny runner types.
Do you have any experience in this?
Ultra runners need more body fat to burn as fuel during a race. At the elite level, most fuel during a marathon comes from glycogen, and runners need very little fat to burn.
Ultra lasts much longer, and run at a slower pace. That means higher percentage of energy comes from fat oxidization, and runners need to keep burning fat for a much longer time..
Yes, why are fat people fat? It's a ridiculous choice for their health and performance in life.
Ultras are just less competitive, so a wider range of body types succeed. Does anyone doubt that Emmanuel Mutai or any elite marathoner would make a joke out of every ultra runner on the planet if he so desired?
Major reason: They aren't East Africans.
One guy who is BUILT like an Ethiopian is Kilian Jornet, who is essentially the Haile Geb of the bunch.
Agreed. Skinny runners want to win $100K/race + appearance fee money.
Guy On A Buffalo wrote:
Major reason: They aren't East Africans.
One guy who is BUILT like an Ethiopian is Kilian Jornet, who is essentially the Haile Geb of the bunch.
They do?
Plenty of elite ultra runners are simply just moving from being sub-elite (or elite) marathoners to elite ultra marathoners.
The only distance where people may be a little bit bigger is the 100 mile distance. Even then, who are we actually talking about with a bigger body type? Name runners. I don't know of any "bigger" people that are active - maybe 5-10 years ago.
Ultra runners have longer running careers and have money from a sponsor or a regular job/education
Elite marathoners may or may not be able to read and write